I agree with trf. Based on general records, China made goods are generally less reliable and quality wise, questionable. It also doesn't mean that everything China-made is defective. Don't get me wrong, pls, nothing personal. I'm an Asian Chinese, though not fr China.
trf, 19 Sep 2009Mass production accounts for defects my friend.
the more things you produce, the more buste... moreWow that was a fast response buddy!
Once again, I agree. Percentage error becomes larger when the demand increases.
Anyway, I guess we're getting farther and farther. And I think it's about time to end these talks regarding quality of manufacture since we've got valid points presented already. It's up for people to choose based on EXPERIENCES and PERCEIVED QUALITY, like OJ having trust on European makes and we can't blame him because he has enough experience to prove his point. Bottomline is, it depends on people's preferences.
RBa, 19 Sep 2009I agree, Apple controls only a small fraction of the market and that mass production of phones... moreMass production accounts for defects my friend.
the more things you produce, the more busted ones will go out.
if you produce 100 phones and 1% is broken, that's 1 phone.
if 1000, 10. if 100000, 100. so on and so forth.
That's just how things are mass produced.
Quality control drops because of demand sometimes.
the fewer products you produce the lower the chances of producing broken ones.
that's just how things work in assembly production.
But yes, based on how large a market share Nokia controls, it still produces excellent quality.
NokiaLuvrFromJakarta, 19 Sep 2009thanks for the response.
i respect every opinion here, but one thing i want to say is, nowa... morecorrection.
the 8800 Gold Arte is not the most expensive Nokia Phone.
the Vertus are.
they cost $300,000.
cheapest ones are $7000.
anything below that are rip offs.
you might get a good deal for the lowest class for $5000... maybe.
but at that price for a luxury phone I wouldn't trust it much if it doesn't come from Europe.
trf, 19 Sep 2009people don't actually complain about apple products because ALL of them ARE "made from China".... moreI agree, Apple controls only a small fraction of the market and that mass production of phones can be a factor affecting quality. I'm comparing Apple and Nokia because I base it on the fact that both companies have factories in China. That's my sole reason for comparing the two and not based on market share. And besides, Nokia has a lot of factories (and I bet, even employees too) so mass production of its phones shouldn't compromise quality.
NokiaLuvrFromJakarta, 19 Sep 2009thanks for the response.
i respect every opinion here, but one thing i want to say is, nowa... morehey man.
I've no problem with korean brands or asian brands for that matter.
my last E52 that died was korean. this one is still korean.
I'm just stating the facts.
I'm not being biased with any manufacturing location.
try it out yourself and see how long china made products last.
we deal with steel cables for shipment.
china steel lasts for a couple of months, Japanese steel lasts 3 years.
we only get china one's if jap steel is unavailable, it's pretty much band aid to your wound until you get proper treatment.
As you can see, and as we have decades of experience dealing with shipment or servicing electronic products, China still produces inferior products.
once again, nothing against Asian products, just basing an observation off from experience.
Like I've always stated here, my posts are just to help other purchasers of E52 to base it off from details and not just assumptions.
That's why I'm giving as much info, real life as well as theoretical tests so they can make intelligent purchases.
If you want to buy china made phones by all means buy one. It's your money. I'm just trying to help out.
trf, 19 Sep 2009to make an earning in 3rd world countries you have to buy cheaper products.
Instead of buyi... morethanks for the response.
i respect every opinion here, but one thing i want to say is, nowadays asian handset-maker technology are equal to european or american handset-made. Look at the biggest name in handset player... Samsung, HTC, SE (half asian), LG... etc.
They produce mainly in asian (mostly china), using asian-made chips (maybe just like nokia china-made), using asian labor (just like nokia china-made) and they show the world how great their handset is. (HTC is the best example).
and FYI, E52 are manufactured in Korea not China. So its just not fair to blame China made nokia for ur problems in E52. But still i believe Korean made Nokias or China made Nokias produced with Nokia QC, then it would be the same as european/american Nokia.
Look at the most expensive nokias, 8800 gold-arte, it is korean made.
I try to be as objective as possible, dont mean to over-proud as asian, but its just the fact. I still choose NOKIA (european) over asian brand handset. Frankly speaking, i want to change to HTC, they produce superb phone, but too bad their product always come with average camera and no symbian. So i still keep nokia.
Have a great day.
luv E52 btw, and wait till they have more reliable OS.
ur troubled E52 is korean made ones? and the replacement they gave also korean or european made?
did you try the e52 GPS? good or poor signal? fast or slow?
to make an earning in 3rd world countries you have to buy cheaper products.
Instead of buying $5 materials you buy $1 to make some money since 3rd world countries are paid a fraction of what they get if its US or European based.
Oh and I mean the OS in terms of Microsoft and Apple.
for the Hardware, Apple still has to deal with the likes of HP, Dell and Toshiba.
In the US the iPhone is still struggling against RIM.
as you can see the OS 3.1 of the iPhone is problem ridden and there's only several million iPhones world wide. this is software based.
They're already encountering bugs and issues and they've only been around for a couple of years.
Hardware wise, did you see how easily these things can be scratched or broken when dropped?
And the iMac, it's just a big Laptop that you can't close.
I'm not busting on Apple, they produce nice-looking products, but quality? seriously...
RBa, 19 Sep 2009I wonder what's all the fuss about these "European makes are of better quality than Chinese ma... morepeople don't actually complain about apple products because ALL of them ARE "made from China".
so you can't say that your iPhone is better than this iPhone cuz all of them came from the same source.
and yeah, chinese based products are not to be trusted much yet because of the quality they tend to output.
yes, they produce lower quality chips and yes chances are there are more defects you'll find there.
Apple has only produced a small percentage of products compared to nokias.
even in the desktop arena they've only produced a fraction of what Microsoft has outputted.
the more you produce, chances are there will be more defective products showing up based on an acceptable error percentage.
checkout six sigma.
My only concern is you can't use apple as a base comparison since they only control a very very small part of the market.
Apple is just in the news these days. nothing more. nothing less.
Nokia controls about 60% market share worldwide while Apple only has 10%.
Microsoft holds 93% while Apple holds 5%.
Oh and yes we also have iPhones and Macs.
I have bought Nokia E52
It is very beutyful, but it is aviable for Girl than for Men.
I wonder what's all the fuss about these "European makes are of better quality than Chinese made Nokia phones" issue. While I do agree that Chinese products are not that credible in terms of quality, anyone who knows Nokia very well would understand that they produce high-quality products, though there are issues at times.
OJ, I respect your statement too as I do believe that we should only tell based on experiences and some facts discovered by ourselves. I can't blame anyone losing trust on Chinese products. Because China has always created "CLONE" products. In fact, if you're living in the Philippines just as I do, it's impossible for you not to find CLONES of Nokia phones, unless you are living in a cave. And all these clones come from one source, CHINA. Still, when a high-profile company produces phones in China, I don't think there is a reason for them to create inferior products. Even Apple produces products from China yet I haven't found someone saying that his IPhone is of inferior quality than the others. The reason why people behave this way is simple, it's because of the "Made in China" label. If only Nokia will remove that country's point-of-origin mark on its models, I bet all origin prejudice will be gone.
As what Nokia Lover from Jakarta said, cheaper production cost doesn't mean that the quality is also degraded. However, cheaper production costs is just possible to be done on a low cost labor as its IMPOSSIBLE for Nokia to use cheaper hardware on Chinese original Nokias than on European makes. That practice will obviously ruin their reputation especially seeing the huge smartphone market share they have in China.
NokiaLuvrFromJakarta, 18 Sep 2009its silly to say nokia china-made is worst and european-made is better. If so, then why i hear... moreTo NOKIA-LUVR-FROM-JAKARTA:
I respect your opinion too.
I'm just telling you what I have seen with my own eyes.
Even a editor for another site was saying some people tend to think that the European model Nokias are better than other regions and they also went on to say that they don't about that because the parts are manufactured in various countries and assembled in one place.
Contrary to all that, this is obviously a big issue with many people worldwide.
Personally I have never really had any problems with European Nokias, only with the 6300...that OS was just plain buggy...but others worked fine.
For some reason, I just feel more comfortable with the European made.
NOKIA-LUVR-FROM-JAKARTA, based on the findings I explained earlier, if you were in my shoes and witnessed what I witnessed, wouldn't you stick to European one as well ?
Hope this will be closure on the various regions and we can stick to the main topic...E52.
I have it. Before this I had the Samsung G810.
Few words about the G810. The samsung takes about 10 seconds from a cold start to get your position.
The E52 needs about 5 - 7 minutes. Awful. I wasn't even driving but standing under the clear sky.
The damn thing turns itself of every 2 days or so, has problems displaying video's you made on it, freezes every day and now it won't even turn back on.
If you buy this piece of crap all you will get is a 299€ worth display dummy that actualy act's as a phone the first week and then gives up.
its silly to say nokia china-made is worst and european-made is better. If so, then why i heard many complain from our european friends also about their phone problems.
i once got the N-gage finland made, (battery from china-made) its working fine. later i got the european nokia, the quality is not as good as the n-gage i had previously.
i think the simple answer is that , as competition get tough, when price is becoming the main subject to fight for, and productivity , capacity grown as handset user booming in these 5 years, every big manufacture , nokia,SE,MOTO, etc... automatically have to face the reality that they cant build the same quality phone as good as 5-6 years ago.
its the fact.
i respect what ojs opinion. but its subjective as some prefer brighter screen rite? paler or color... i think its still subjective. And if most said asian made nokia is second class nokias... well nokia main market is in asia now, my country, indonesia, are the biggest contributor for the sales of nokia smartphone now, and they even set the gala premiere of E72 in jakarta first. we are the first to experienced N97, N86, E52... so its so stupid for nokia management to distribute 2nd class nokia for asia.
yes, production cost in china is less than european made, its because the labor cost cheaper, the chips are cheaper ( asian are chip biggest manufacture), its not because we use the 2nd class hardware or something.
I have been Nokia fan for past 10+ years, this is the latest one i have. But what disappointment! The phone just died on me just like that! Went back to Nokia Care Centre and today is already one week and it is still there!! My previous E71, E75 and 6210 Navigator are also sent to Care Centre at least once (min) for software update. Guess Nokia recent products are not longer stable. Stay away from Nokia, stay away from this model too!! Previous experiences i can still backup my data but E52 just died w/o warning. I lost all my data!!!
I'm switching brand, to Sony E or HTC. Sorry Nokia, but u just lost a 10+yo loyal customer.