Sails, 30 Nov 2010You still fail to see the point. 1) You have ten million dollar company with 10 million in ... moreWow? That is your only rebuttal? Seriously? That is just wrong on so many levels. First off your net worth is dependent on which market you currently are publicly trading stocks on. Hence the need for IFRS and US-GAAP(Non-IFRS). Different financial investors require you to include certain factors into your reports. Hence the reason why Non-IFRS reports exclusions as these exclusions make it unfair when compared to competing companies in the same market(much like how intel gave kickbacks for any company that specifically used their cpus for a while, however this is legal practice, unlike intel's practice). Like I said, please educate yourself, theres a reason they're listed as IFRS report, and Other Reported. If IFRS values were the only ones that counted Nokia and basically any other company in the world that does international trading would not need to spend money and time and make two reports, they would just have one.
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010There again lies your ignorance. Do you know why its called "NON-IFRS, Other reported&quo... moreYou still fail to see the point.
1) You have ten million dollar company with 10 million in cash
2) Your non-IFRS shows 5 million profit and reported -10 million profit
3) What is your estimated net worth? Did you do well or badly?
Sails, 30 Nov 2010In that copypaste that clearly says "total marketshare". I fail to see the nobrand a... moreThere again lies your ignorance. Do you know why its called "NON-IFRS, Other reported"? Read again. OTHER REPORTED, its reported, however it is not reported to financial agencies that have associated under the IFRS. Again, do you know exactly which countries are using IFRS? Please educate yourself it's so embarrassing. Like I said, you're free to comment as much as you like, however when you reply to my comments and then use irrelevant information(like you seem to enjoy so much) its ridiculous. You're replying to each and everyone of my post so I would assume you're talking specifically to me, trying to come up with rebuttals for all of my statements. Yet you throw irrelevant information in and your only excuse is "i'm free to comment whatever I want"? Once again, if you acknowledge the fact that you are free to comment on anything you want, you should very well acknowledge I have the same rights. So why again are you driven to try and defend any of my statements? Especially if they're factual? Why do you post irrelevant information trying to prove me wrong and then make up some lousy excuse for saying it? You're hilarious. Epitome of fanboyism like I said. You're so deep in it, it's practically a religion for you now. LOL. By the way the US doesn't participate in IFRS regulations, which is why there is such a thing as US GAAP, however I doubt you know that.
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010"Actually the main reason Nokias total marketshare dropped y2y was the small non-branded ... moreIn that copypaste that clearly says "total marketshare". I fail to see the nobrand and smartphones connection?
One is named Non-IFRS, other Reported. Which one is the officially reported result? If you owned a company that reported 1 million non-IFRS profit and -1 million reported profit as per Nokia reporting standard, were you getting richer or poorer?
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010"Actually the main reason Nokias total marketshare dropped y2y was the small non-branded ... moreAlso like I said, if you never mentioned about smart phone market share, then again, why do you care whether I comment truth about Nokia losing smart phone market share? Remind me again why do you care so much? Its true is it not? Care to provide me with information showing that Nokia isn't losing smart phone market share? You keep on replying to me trying to argue with my statements yet you keep talking non sense with irrelevant information, then trying to back up your rebuttal with said information.
So lets recap, why do you care whether or not I replied to someone else letting them know Nokia is losing market share?
Why do you keep posting irrelevant things trying to make it correlate with your statements and then going back asking whether or not you said anything about smart phone market share, when you are replying to a post I made on smart phone market share(Again my analogy of PC and internet browsers come into play)?
Do you even know which countries have adopted IFRS? Ever heard of US GAAP? Why do you think nokia spends money and time compiling a NON-IFRS report if its irrelevant? Last I checked Nokia wasn't make as much as they use to, they're firing board members left and right. When the board members gotta go, i doubt they have money to spend man hour doing a report that's irrelevant.
Sails, 30 Nov 2010Would you kindly copy a line where I said nonbrands affect smartphone marketshare? Or a line w... more"Actually the main reason Nokias total marketshare dropped y2y was the small non-branded manufacturers that mostly didn't run Android or Symbian or iOS. If you do the math with only 10 biggest manufacturers, you get a drop of something like 1 percent. Also look at Apple marketshare fluctuation before and after they release a new generation. Nokia was at that point this time. Many of the Nokia fans were waiting for the new Symbian which is a really major update."
Look at the first sentence, LOL. That's a direct copy and paste for your viewing pleasures "genius". Once again, you fail. Do you even know what the IFRS means? What companies adopted IFRS? Why do you expect Nokia would issue a NON-IFRS and IFRS statements at the same time? Not every country uses IFRS reports. However I doubt you would know anything about that. You're so oblivious to any facts you even forget about your own contradicting words.
So once again, remind me with any data about Enron's debt rating again? you seem to be able to recall that their debt rating was still in excellent standing so you can provide me with who calculated the debt rating, how long it remained after the embezzlement scandals broke out and whether said financial assessment company retracted it?
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010LOL so you like to throw in comments that is irrelevant to try and prove your point? Then your... moreWould you kindly copy a line where I said nonbrands affect smartphone marketshare? Or a line where I blamed economy for something?
There is only one set of official comparable numbers in profit announcements. Want to guess which one?
Sails, 30 Nov 2010I am allowed to make my own comments too not just reply to you. Still didn't say anything ... moreAlso your comment about how projection of android over taking symbian is related to projection of iOS over taking symbian is ridiculous. Even a moron wouldn't believe a word of it, but I guess you would believe it huh? Nokia has a wide portfolio of devices it considers a "smart phone", where as apple has currently 2 devices its selling in it's portfolio. To even believe one second it would overtake symbian is ridiculous, but hey if you wanna use it as a defense to help hide your fears of your precious nokia and symbian losing by all means go ahead. It helps you sleep at night right? Your comment was similar to saying Smart ForTwo cars will outsell Toyota cars. Would you believe that in a million years? lol.
Sails, 30 Nov 2010I am allowed to make my own comments too not just reply to you.
Still didn't say anything ... moreLOL so you like to throw in comments that is irrelevant to try and prove your point? Then your only come back is "i can make whatever comments I want"? Then why do you care about what comments I make whether its irrelevant to your obsessive love of Nokia or not? Why do you have such a compulsive need to defend your dying brand?
Services 750 787 -5%
how about take a look at non-IFRS values as well eh? Especially when they can't include special items I see a decline in profit. -5% year over year, or do you believe Nokia likes to post just random numbers just for the hell of it? Mentioning over all market share when we're specifically talking about smart phone market share is like making a comment about how PC's dominate computer market share compared to Mac's when we're talking about internet browsers.
So again, tell me how do these non large brand, non os mobile phones affect smart phone market share again? Its not like these non brand mobile phones ran symbian before and then suddenly changed to android, even if they were running android OS most people wouldn't buy them anyways. Even if they did buy them why does it matter? They're at the same price point as Nokia's low end devices which runs Symbian, and Nokia counts them into its data? If nokia doesn't like the fact that it only has 1 mobile OS it can always diversify itself. It's refusal to diversify itself is what's killing it.
Heres Q2 results for you too, OUCH! -16% year over year profits for just mobile devices and services. Wait i thought you just tried to explain your reasons for Nokia's over all profit plunge was due to the economy? Why did they "gain" profits if its due to the economy? Nice try, trying to blame economy. Next you'll probably blame president bush for the N97 sucking right? You just have so many holes in your arguments its fun.
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010Why would you even bother making a comment about over all market share when I, myself have nev... moreI am allowed to make my own comments too not just reply to you.
Still didn't say anything about no brands and smartphones. Here is the relevant line since it seems these aren't your best area:
Devices & Services 807 785 3% 643 26%
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010Um you do know that Nokia just took over symbian again and has integrated Symbian back into in... moreright and i think meego is jus another symbian(not much into tech) its just that you two are arguing about two different things, that is why i said that
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010I think his main problem is that he sees nokia as symbian itself and not symbian as nokias os ... moreUm you do know that Nokia just took over symbian again and has integrated Symbian back into internal management right? Symbian may have been a joint venture, however it was solely a Nokia OS. Why shouldn't use Nokia and symbian interchangeably? They are are they not? When you think of Symbian, what devices do you think it runs on? Nokia. When you think of Nokia, what OS do you think is most likely installed? Symbian.
Sails, 30 Nov 2010I was talking about total market share. That is where we see a larger drop. I also had differe... moreWhy would you even bother making a comment about over all market share when I, myself have never once mentioned market share? All of my comments always has been, and always will be towards smart phone? You're saying these small no name brands are the reason for Nokia dropping Smart phone market share? Right. These no name brands no one would buy? I mentioned NOKLA as a reference, but I guess your English comprehension once again makes it hard for you to comprehend. Even the smallest of no name brands such as huawei gives their phones away for free and even then no one really wants them, much less buy them.
Directly from Nokia themselves buddy, show me where is this profits you speak of in the mobile device divisions?
Like I said, you're epitome of fanboyism, you're so oblivious to any facts that are right in your face. Nokia losing market share and profits year over year? Pfft not a problem right?! More Nokia devices for you and less for those unworthy of Nokia's good grace. Nokia praise us for giving us crappy hardware, crappy ovi markets, and a nice 12 MP camera sensor.
Sails, 30 Nov 2010I was talking about total market share. That is where we see a larger drop. I also had differe... moreI think his main problem is that he sees nokia as symbian itself and not symbian as nokias os or he just wants nokia to go android w/c with nokias current stand wont happen
Anonymous, 30 Nov 2010Also Enron's implosion is due to board member scandals, so unless financial assessors knew the... moreI was talking about total market share. That is where we see a larger drop. I also had different comment for the smartphone share, I guess you read it? Symbian marketshare is of course dropping since other manufacturers changed from Symbian to Android. That is also one reason for large quick growth. That is also large one time change. Not something you can predict on.
Also, Nokia profits actually increased in Q3, one more fact you got wrong. Why on earth the NOKLA = Symbian comment, didn't I say exactly opposite.
I do software development for living. I'm also very good at what I do. I am not working for Nokia or any company related to them. That is all the personal info you are going to get out of me.
Sails, 30 Nov 2010Since you so love long posts, let me try... Actually the main reason Nokias total marketsha... moreAlso Enron's implosion is due to board member scandals, so unless financial assessors knew the Enron lied in the books and embezzled everything why wouldn't they go by how they performed based on financial reports released by enron? You're quite the genius. I'm pretty sure if these financial assessors knew of Enron's embezzlement then Enron's situation wouldn't have played out at all because they would've alerted the proper authorities. Just like how like if Nokia knew Apple itunes, android market were so successful they would've released OVI stores way ahead of the competition and have market share dominance right? Yeah.. alot of what if's but I guess you possibly can't fathom that at all. :) I like chatting with you, you're the epitome of fanboyism.
Sails, 30 Nov 2010Since you so love long posts, let me try...
Actually the main reason Nokias total marketsha... moreThere lies your fallacy once again. You seem to like to conjure up these points to help prove your point. Please actually read the post before commenting. Small non major phone operators have nothing to do with Symbian losing smart phone market share, #1, these non major phone manufacturers do not run symbian or android or iOS to begin with so how do they account for Symbian losing market share when you're accounting only smart phones? Are you implying that these small no name, no brand phone manufacturers were once using Symbian?
Credit rating agencies actually do a lot of analytical calculations when determining a company's financial health. You do know there are more than one company that does this do you not? Can you provide a link to said enron fact? You also know these ratings should be based on quarterly and fiscal performance to determine right, of course you wouldn't know that. You like to make it seem like you have experience in said field yet you don't. Just like how you like to declare Qt as a superior sdk giving you have no experience in coding anything, and quick to assume that things.
So whats your excuse now to Nokia losing market share in smart phone market? Don't tell me its because of these non brand manufacturers because I doubt they are running symbian. You're saying that these NOKLA devices on ebay run symbian? Then my god, whats the point of buying a nokia for $500 when i can buy a NOKLA with similar hardware and it even runs real Symbian OS? You my friend have an English reading comprehension problem, either that or you're too blinded and jump into things just because the word Nokia is mentioned.
I based my prediction on many things, the tremendous growth of Android as an OS in the market, and with Nokia's current trend of delivering failures of devices with in the past 3 years. Are you going to tell me that even though Nokia has continually shipped out hundred of millions of devices each year but their profits continue to shrink year over year is due to small manufacturers and economy going down? What a coincidence it must be! As Nokia's profits shrink and the economy goes down, profits of Samsung, HTC, Motorola rises. There must be something wrong here, according to you because the economy is affecting Nokia, it should be affect Samsung, HTC, Motorola, and Apple as well should it not? It should affect Apple the most since Apple only has 2 Mobile devices out right now and if the economy is bad, and people are buying less phones Apple should be affected the most. Well data seems to be contradicting that statement as Apple's profits in the mobile division are as healthy as ever.
Anonymous, 29 Nov 2010Once again another fanboy that fails to see any facts. While its true that they still hold the... moreSince you so love long posts, let me try...
Actually the main reason Nokias total marketshare dropped y2y was the small non-branded manufacturers that mostly didn't run Android or Symbian or iOS. If you do the math with only 10 biggest manufacturers, you get a drop of something like 1 percent. Also look at Apple marketshare fluctuation before and after they release a new generation. Nokia was at that point this time. Many of the Nokia fans were waiting for the new Symbian which is a really major update.
Credit agencies do very little actual analyzing and are for large part to blame for our current economical crisis. They kept great ratings on Enron and kept those for few daya even after the company had gone bankrupt. There have even been accusations that you can buy better ratings. I don't give them credit (no pun intended) and neither should you.
One of the reasons others left Symbian was that after years of trying they could not compete against Nokia. Think about it. Ericsson for example had gone from the biggest cellphone manufacturer to one of the smallest. Alao at this point Nokia was adding things like free OVI maps, OVI store and their own Qt layer. How do you compete against that? So they gave up on competing with their own platforms. Well Samsung did try with Bada but that isn't really catching wind.
You are basing your views on a prediction that Android will catch up next year. Remember how many predictions there were on iPhone taking major marketshare. Hasn't really happened and now with Android, there isn't really a chance. I am not saying Android can take top position next year but that will take the combined effort of quite a few companies. Also, things are moving way too fast for anyone to give accurate predictions on future marketshares. Next year we will be seeing the effects of the new Symbian, Win7, MeeGo and new WebOS. I doubt there is a person on this planet who can properly evaluate their effects.
Anonymous, 29 Nov 2010yes you are right nokia is being overtaken by android, and thats just one brand like samsung a... moreYou do know that all those manufacturers do not just have android devices but they also sell a lot of non smart phone os devices, and windows 7 devices right? Look at how many devices each manufacturer sells? Its pretty comparable to Nokia and symbian. Also don't forget other manufacturers also had symbian devices however they sucked and thats why these manufacturers stopped producing symbian devices. Nokia also sell tons of cheap devices with S60, how many cheap devices do you see with android float around? Maybe 3-5 total and those are usually in markets where Nokia already has a strong hold.