Jteve Sobs, 02 Mar 2011Does the Desires have NFC chips? No. Does the Galaxies have NFC chips? No. Does the Xperias ha... moreThe main feature of 2.3 is NFC and improved UI. As u mentioned none of phones have an NFC chip, and UI is taken care by the skins, so what is the purpose of 2.3 ?? Froyo was the version that gave them tons of new features and functionalities, and most android devices have got it.
yet manufacturers are giving a 2.3 update even though it does not bring any changes. And just think, the original desire will be 1 year and 2 months old when they recieve 2.3. A manufacturer supporting a phone for so long is really good considering the fact that most users change their phones after one year. Its unlikely that 2.4 will come to desire as 3/4 th users would have already left desire by that time.
And htc is not like apple where u pay a fortune to buy a device.
About the new single core phones announced at MWC, thinking about their updates is too farfetched as neither the phone nor the update is out yet. Also compaines do learn from their mistakes, which company would like to lose customers due to poor updating ??
And X10 users technically have eclair, but their functionality is similar to froyo. HD recording, tethering, Live wallpapers, html5 etc.
And the 2.3 update for desire is direct to 2.3.2.....
the fragmentation issue is blown out of proportion. Its decreasing and not increasing as u say. MOst three quarter phones run froyo (unlike last year).
And u say that android is tearing apart, developers and users are unhappy...etc.
But android has largest growth rate, app rate and most activation per day. Non of the things u mentioned are happening in reality.
The highest growth of 850% was registered when fragmentation was at its peak.
I love to argue, 02 Mar 2011Fragmentation level is increasing ??? No, I disagree. Most android phones today run froyo. the... moreDoes the Desires have NFC chips? No. Does the Galaxies have NFC chips? No. Does the Xperias have NFC chips? No. Does the Optimuses have NFC chips? No. Does the Droids and Milestones have NFC chips? No.
All these phones that I've mentioned are either in the process of getting Gingerbread or have already gotten it out of the box (Xperia Arc/Neo). Now what happens when 2.4 arrives? 2.4 brings support for dual-core processors which incidentally, non of the abovementioned has again. The manufacturer will then don't see the need to bring an update just because:
1) These phones are viewed as obsolete. Although they are well capable of handling the newer versions, they do not meet the requirements for new technological advancements like NFC, dual-core, LTE connectivity etc. (SE X10 has almost similar specs as the Desire but it's left to die in Eclair. Described by you as "unfortunate")
2) Manufacturers will already have new and improved versions of these phones with NFC hardware, LTE connectivity (Galaxy S 4G) and dual-core processors (Galaxy S2).
So what happens to these deemed obsolete phones then? Some are on Eclair, some on Froyo, some on Gingerbread and some on 2.4 (fragmentally called Gingerbread too). What's more, 2.3 Gingerbread even has sub versions of it now (2.3.1/2.3.2/2.3.3). The level of fragmentation is EVEN WORSE than during the Cupcake/Donut days.
"If a user feels left out by a manufacturer because of the manufacturer's fault then he would be wise next time and buy a nexus phone or a phone from a better manufacturer."
And will this solve my issue of not getting the timely updates that I so very rightly deserve for my device that's more than capable of handling future versions? No! The fact reamains that every device will always be running on an outdated OS irregardless of what manufacturer you choose (unless it being a Nexus "Google Experience" device)
I love to argue, 02 Mar 2011Fragmentation level is increasing ??? No, I disagree. Most android phones today run froyo. the... morecorrection 1st para last line : its eclair to froyo, not froyo to froyo.
Jteve Sobs, 02 Mar 2011You really are unable to grasp the logic of the situation. How is it an improving OS when the ... more"With all that said, Android's future is filled with even more uncertainty than any of the other OSes
This is not developing, this is falling apart
These are some funny quotes from your statement. Dont tell me you didnt see android improvement statistics.
I didn't know a development of 850% means that the OS is falling apart....LOL
Android has most amount of apps added per day...I didnt know that it means that the developers are pissed off...
And android filled with more uncertainty ??
Is it more than symbian 3 which has received its death sentence coutesy elop??
Or WP7 which costs so high and gives u tons of limitations for free ??
Or more uncertain than dead OS like meamo, S60 ??
or dead zombie WebOS ??
or bada which barely manages to stay alive ??
Or meego which isnt out yet ???
Please tell me, which other OS (Other than costly iOS) has a certain future ??
Jteve Sobs, 02 Mar 2011You really are unable to grasp the logic of the situation. How is it an improving OS when the ... moreFragmentation level is increasing ??? No, I disagree. Most android phones today run froyo. the fragmentation was at the peak when there where evenly distributed amount of 1.5, 1.6 and 2.1 users. You may say that gingerbread is already present. But what does gingerbread give u other than NFC support and improved UI ?? NFC chip is absent in all android phones, and UI is taken care by the skins (Sense, touchwiz etc)
So what "features" are froyo users lacking that nexus user would laugh ?? Have u seen the change-log of galaxy s gingerbread ?? Improved taskbar and little improvement in quadrant....so many features isnt it? What im trying to say is that improvement in gingerbread is very little unless u have an NFC chip.
Ask Nexus One users. They got Wifi, USB tethering, 450% performance improvement, HD recording, new UI etc...
But did they get anything from gingerbread ??
Froyo to froyo was like Windows 98 to XP, whereas Froyo to gingerbread is like XP SP2 to SP3.
"Just laying it off as "unfortunate" already proves your inability to fully understand this. Fragmentation IS NOT and NEVER WAS a sign of improvement or indicator of improving or even remotely related to any of those"
Is describing the legend users as "unfortunate" wrong in any sense ?? Do u know of a better adjective to describe them ?? IF so please let me know.
If fragmentation is not even remotely related to fragmentation then why is there fragmentation ?? Assuming that update = improvement, would there be any fragmentation if there was no update ??
And what are the millions of users u mentioned are missing out from another OS users perspective ??? Froyo IMO provides better functionality and UI than any other OS...be it iOS, WP7, SYmbian or Bada. If a user feels left out by a manufacturer because of the manufacturer's fault then he would be wise next time and buy a nexus phone or a phone from a better manufacturer.
[deleted post]You really are unable to grasp the logic of the situation. How is it an improving OS when the fragmentation level is rising and getting worse with every new release? Millions of upset users, miliions more of supposely obsolete devices doomed to run on outdated OS when they can very well be running the latest iteration given the hardware specs. This is not developing, this is falling apart. Just laying it off as "unfortunate" already proves your inability to fully understand this. Fragmentation IS NOT and NEVER WAS a sign of improvement or indicator of improving or even remotely related to any of those.
With all that said, Android's future is filled with even more uncertainty than any of the other OSes. Both for developer and users alike. Will my device get updated? Is it of the latest version instance? How long before my manufacturer cuts off support for my phone? Will my device get omitted from the update list? Is there a reason as to why my phone is not updated but I know that it can support the latest update? Will my app work with this version? Which models can my app run on and capable of supporting? Etc etc etc.
Jteve Sobs, 02 Mar 2011You really don't get my point, do you? It's the fact that manufacturers are unable to keep up ... moreYes fragmentation is present and its bad. The legend users were unfortunate victims when fragmentation was present in larger scale when 1.x devices were present. But its improving.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to say that fragmentation is an improvement but its a sign or indicator that the OS is improving or comes as a byproduct of improvement.
Its just like how a developing country has characteristics like overpopulation, inflation etc.
Are they good ? No. But they are showing that the country is developing and the problems will vanish as the country becomes developed.
Its similar in the case of android. Fragmentation is neither good nor an improvement but rather an indicator showing that the OS is improving.
But choosing an improving os is certainly better than choosing an OS with uncertain future isn't it? Which other os is certain to survive (other than IOS) ? S60 ? Wp7 ? S^3 ? Bada ? Webos ? No, none of them have a certain future.
I love to argue, 01 Mar 2011yes fragmentation is a sign of fast improvement of android. Google is rolling out updates at a... moreYou really don't get my point, do you? It's the fact that manufacturers are unable to keep up which will result in all those problems that I've stated earlier on. Yes, it's good that Google is releasing updates but what's the point when a device which is fully able to support these updates, (HTC Legend, SE X10) is just not getting them just because the manufacturer is unable to conform to latest industry standards on time. This is HARDLY an improvement much less good news for owner's with supposedly obsolete devices.
With reference to 2.4 and the Desires update, it's not about the timing of the releases and who gets them first but rather the version that these devices are updated to. 2.4 is obviously going to benefit a Desire owner more than 2.3 but unfortunately, they just ain't getting it yet although by the time they get the 2.3 update, 2.4 would have already been released on a similiar phone with similiar hardware. That's a shame, not an improvement.
Read carefully. I said it's because Gingerbread supports NFC that all upcoming phones will be fitted with an NFC chip to exploit this feature. This means more Gingerbreads out of the boxes. Manufacturers might then choose not to update (or release delayed updates) non-NFC phones just because they do not support this new technology thus widening the fragmentation level. Still an improvement?
Jteve Sobs, 01 Mar 2011Fragmentation is proof that an OS is improving? Lol! Which part of the word fragmented makes y... moreand about nfc, its not present in any android device other than nexus s. so theres not going to be any benefit of it in desire as its a hardware issue.
Jteve Sobs, 01 Mar 2011Fragmentation is proof that an OS is improving? Lol! Which part of the word fragmented makes y... moreyes fragmentation is a sign of fast improvement of android. Google is rolling out updates at a fast rate that manufacturers are unable to keep up. if there were no updates then there would be no fragmentation. so fragmentation IS A PROOF of improvement.
can u deny that ?
both desire update and 2.4 have a Q2 eta, so isnt it farfetched to say who recieves an update first ?
I love to argue, 01 Mar 2011Please read my earlier post. This is what i said earlier: "...But look at symbian, even t... moreFragmentation is proof that an OS is improving? Lol! Which part of the word fragmented makes you think that its an improvement? A fragmented OS can only mean disappointed owners, confused developers/manufacturers, loads of obsolete devices in a short period of time leading to loss of assets, funds and pushing global smartphone sales (and tablets now) to an all time low.
I don't need to tell you the improvements of Gingerbread over Froyo (Google it!) but just a small inclusion in it for support for NFC and most manufacturers will be scrambling to produce a device to utilize this. This means more Gingerbread out of the boxes and devices without NFC chips gets the risk of not being updated though theyre more than capable of supporting it even without NFC support! Again, fragmentation right there which according to you, is an improvement? Tell that to HTC Legend or SE X10 owners.
What's the point of going through the trouble of rooting or purchasing a new device just because my manufacturer refuses to update my phone to the latest version when I know for a fact that it's more than capable of handling it? Think about it.
Jteve Sobs, 01 Mar 2011Please read carefully. I said Froyo DID give all of those to Desire users who upgraded from Ec... morePlease read my earlier post. This is what i said earlier: "...But look at symbian, even they're fragmented....oh wait "fragmented" is not the right word its more like: Completely separated out..."
Did i use the word fragment: YES
Did i describe Symbian as fragmented: NO
I could have directly said that symbian is seperated out, but i used the word "fragmented" to convey that separation is worse than fragmentation.
And please tell me what features are present in gingerbread to the extend that (unskinned) Nexus users would laugh at desire users ??
Eclair to froyo had many feature difference, but not froyo-gingerbread. (unless u consider improved garbage collection & EXT4 as major)
Im not denying the fact that android is fragmented, but its much better than choosing an OS with an uncertain future(includes all symbian, mees and WP7)
fragmentation is the proof that the OS is improving a lot. You know google can stop fragmentation without breaking a sweat - yes literally. Just stop updating and boom, no more fragmentation. But consequence is that there would be no improvement in android.
If users always want to see the latest OS version in settings then they can always buy nexus phones to get over it, or even root their phones.
I love to argue, 01 Mar 2011Who told u froyo didn't give USB and wifi tethering, hd recording to desire ???
And what do ... morePlease read carefully. I said Froyo DID give all of those to Desire users who upgraded from Eclair. The Froyo update gave it to you and not the Sense UI. Sense UI is just merely an user interface which utilises widgets to bring you information and does not give you new enhancements found in full OS updates.
The point here again, is not how good Sense UI is or what new features it has. The point is there will always be another smartphone out there with identical capabilities as yours which is running on a later updated version of the very same OS which you damn well know your own smartphone is more than capable of supporting. This is known as FRAGMENTATION.
With all due respect, you did use the word FRAGMENTED to describe the Symbian platform. All these OSes that you're mentioning (Symbian^3, S60v5, Meego, Maemo, WP7) are all SEPARATE ENTITIES in the smartphone world. Different core structures, different platforms, different interfaces, different programming. Yes, they are under the same manufacturer but they all have different capabilities and for different purposes. Some of them were dead ends but some of them are still one of the best optimised mobile platforms available today.
Unlike Android, which is based on the same core architecture (From Cupcake to Gingerbread, there were no major OS overhauls) but for different manufacturers, different user interfaces, different release dates, different hardware used etc. This is called FRAGMENTED.
Jteve Sobs, 01 Mar 2011At the end of the day a UI is just a UI. It will not give you the enhancements that a whole ne... moreWho told u froyo didn't give USB and wifi tethering, hd recording to desire ???
And what do u mean by "new UI will not give you the enhancements that a whole new update can" ??
Looks like u havent used an android. The update thats coming will have features of 2.3 + new features of Sense UI, whereas the Nexus users have only update features (but they get it sooner)
Did I say symbian is fragmented, please read it again. I said that phones like X6, N97 was completely seperated from N8, C7 etc.
N97 was the previous flagship wasnt it ??? its completely abandoned.... Then look at meamo user, is there another meamo device coming out - NO, a meego device ? maybe ,
None of nokia OS have a certain future, not symbian 3, not s60, not meego, not meamo, not WP7, not s40.....etc.
Picking a nokia phone is like picking a lottery....now which is going to survive - S^3 ? WP7 ? meego ???
Nexus 1 user, 01 Mar 2011They can do a symbian 3 for the x6 and n97 also. Dont take me like a fool. They have programme... moreSpecial version IS NOT pure Symbian^3 experience and WILL NOT deliver all the promised enhancements Symbian^3 has to offer. This IS NOT fragmentation. This is cutting off one OS and designing a new one. Imagine Symbian^3 as Windows 7 and S60v5 as Windows XP. Get the picture?
Jteve Sobs, 01 Mar 2011At the end of the day a UI is just a UI. It will not give you the enhancements that a whole ne... moreThey can do a symbian 3 for the x6 and n97 also. Dont take me like a fool. They have programmer's. We call that fragmentation my friend. They can do a special version of symbian 3 if they want that s not a problem. The problem is that they dont whant to do it. Fragmentation at 100%.
Mike, 01 Mar 2011Having spoken to SE reps and having played with their new phones, ARC, NEO and PLAY I can tell... moreAm telling Se wan it come to update they are crap. I wax a proud x10 user but se was so late in theire update for 2.1 that i could take it anymore. Every other phone ad 2.2 . A will never go back with se. Htc is the best when it come to update.. i was a long time SE fan boy but now it s over.
I love to argue, 01 Mar 2011"The point here is not to criticize on existing phone's hardware capabilities but rather ... moreAt the end of the day a UI is just a UI. It will not give you the enhancements that a whole new update can. Sense UI, although nice to look at, did not give you USB thetering or Wi-Fi Hotspot that Froyo did from Eclair. A UI is no excuse for consumers to wait months or even close to half a year (Sony Ericsson, X10, you get the picture) before they can finally enjoy the benefits from upgrades that their devices were meant for and have no problems supporting in the first place.
You seem to be confused about fragmentation? The X6, N97, N97 mini, 5800 XM did not get updated because they're running a completely different OS version and interface from Symbian^3. These devices supported only S60v5 AND NOT overall Symbian versions (they could not run S60v3 or S40 now could they?) With Symbian^3, it's a whole different ball game played by the N8, C7, C6. Different phones, different capabilities, different OS, different interface, no fragmentation.
Fragmentedly speaking, Android 2.4 is projected for an April/Q2 2011 release. Even if this date were pushed back a little, you can guarantee the Nexuses and all upcoming HTC/Samsung/LG/SE devices would already be on 2.4 by time the Desires get 2.3 or worse, in the process of getting 2.3.
tejagamer, 01 Mar 2011My next phone will be HTC... Too good in updates... I am mad of SE for not even giving froyo f... moreHaving spoken to SE reps and having played with their new phones, ARC, NEO and PLAY I can tell you that Android updates will almost certainly come to these phones before HTC. They've stripped out a lot of their own software so it won't take much tweaking to fix it to their phones. The ARC and PLAY look amazing. I'm tempted to swap my HTC Desire HD for one.