Obi Wan Kenobi, 27 Mar 2017Okay. Eternal Peace.BTW I just noticed that you vote up your comments (because no way anybody else is still following this thread), I find it funny :p
As for the rest, like I said if Samsung was not to jeopardise this tablet with the awful aspect ratio I could give a rest to the ... rest of her failings. But that 4:3 pretty much killed this tablet (added to the old specs + ridiculous price; even Apple has more reas on able prices ... I find this funny).
Obi Wan Kenobi, 26 Mar 2017First of all, please reply to my message (don't post a new comment, that's cowardly)
For mo... moreI always reply in posts, that time I didn't by accident. You see agency where there is none
"Why depend on un-stable 3rd party ROM's and nightly builds"
Because it is not unstable (you're probably unaware of the venting mechanisms of Cyanogenmod and lately LineageOS. You don't get official ROM by being unstable) and it's the closest to the purest form of android code (i.e. making the most efficient use of resources). Samsung's UX is heavy and loses speed over time, it's quite less efficient as evidenced by the lower battery and higher ram usage for similar uses.
Pen support is baked into android from Nougat on as well, you lose nothing. You have all kinds of pressure sensitivity as well as "hover pointing", as well as any "feature" that Grace UX can give you in the form of apps (disabling touch input in certain apps, s-pen menu, etc).
Thus far you've libeled LineAgeOS based on hearsay. Also on one hand you speak of Android's openess and then criticize making full use of it. That is installing a version of the OS that is much easier to modify (for example I've enabled "virtual terminal" support by baking it into the kernel, enjoying full speed, full linux side-by-side with my android OS).
"nowadays everyone uses iPad's screen ratio"
Nobody uses ipad's screen ratio. Apps are built for 16:9, youtube is built for 16:9, websites are built for widescreen. And that's just the software. On the hardware end, Microsoft uses 3:2, Google (most lately) used 1.41:1 , Sony used 16:10, heck even Apple is rumoured to be moving away from 4:3 . This is an ancient ratio that should go extinct , that causes more problems than it solves and greatly decreases the usefulness of a tablet's screen by actually making it smaller where it matters.
Tab S3 is 264 PPI on a smaller screen (meaning you have to keep it slightly closer). Note 10.1 is 299 PPI on a bigger screen. AMOLED produces quite better colours (even though Note 10.1's was no slouch for an LCD), in fact that's the only point I gave to S3's screen. But it is effectively an 8.8 inch screen when watching movies (due to the black bars), and yes that's quite a departure, making me wonder what matters more. Better colours, or a quite bigger screen (when watchin movies) that's also sharper.
" stereo speakers vs 4 stereo speakers "
You're now repeating my point. I did say that S3 has an edge over Note 10.1's speakers. I also said that given Note's speakers are no slouch, the edge is downgraded. I don't see how repeating my point moves the conversation forwards.
"LineAge OS must be providing you with a lot of S-Pen features"
Actually it has features parity but with a better control over them. This is the changelog (from back in December) adding the S-pen kernel features:
"S-Pen Power Saving Mode (turn off S-Pen detection if it is inserted)
S-Pen booster (increase CPU frequency when the S-Pen touches the screen)"
And those are two apps that puts everything from Grace UX's pen features back (and more!) if you so need them:
Again you're assuming where you know none. I'm actually using my pen a lot more than I used to, simply because I've added *more* function to my spen with those (for example I deny touch support and only use the pen when I do a certain gesture and I then turn the touch back on by another gesture).
"Ever heard of Tele-conferencing? "
Which is exactly what I was referencing when saying that Tablet cameras are a gimmick, expressingly not suited for photography. Note 10.1's front camera is fine for tele conferencing. I was rarely of a need to see a colleague's individual hairs, I hope they don't either. Which is -btw- why iPad's front camera is not being updated very often. There's not much need for it.
"not because of your stated excuse."
You're probably skipping my text at this point, because I was clearly referencing the point of lockscreens for security.
Also -yeah- very few people I know use tablets for proffesional purposes and if they do they prefer the Surface Pro that also includes Pro software. Most people (in *my* world) use Windows or Mac products for work (and some times ipads). But I concede your point, there may be some few that need android tabs for their work, if you're one of those few a fingertip sensor is a god send. For the 90% of the android tab users it's not.
But yeah, a fingertip sensor can be a nice thing to have. I won't trade down to an awkward aspect ratio to have it though, that's asking way too much. I much prefer to simply type a pin than having to use an awful 4:3 screen.
You're previously lauding the presence of Micro-SD to S3 and you're now abandoning it to make transfer to its internal memory? Of course I have USB 3 speeds as well when moving data to my Note 10.1 2014 ... I have those for years, it's called a card reader.
BTW you lose MHL support, you're aware of that right? Because I've been booting up full linux with Note tablet by simply connecting it to a live screen and pairing my BT keyboard and mouse. In trips I rarely need anything other than my Tablet anymore (for years now) simply knowing that there is a screen in my Hotel rooms, means that I can do full computing (and if not I can still do it in my 10 inches). I really, really hope that transfering data to internal memory is worth the loss of MHL support, 'cause I really (*really*) don't see it. What a solid downgrade!
As for performance. First magnanimous of you to report the spelling mistake, I mean I have to torch my phone's dictionary right now, without your very pointy observation Ι would be now living in darkness.
I have to give you the part about the GPU performance. I don't game, I don't care. I don't know anyone that seriously games on an android tablet. The few games that I do play all play flawlessly. But again you must be an absolute minority if you buy an android tablet to play complex 3D games. I mean both Microsoft and Apple products are ages ahead on this.
I'm not aware of any gpu accelerated UI that would need anything more than an Adreno 330. It's shocking how little of the GPU is being used by anything other than games on the android platform. If you ask me that's actually one of the downsides of the platform.
Can you point me to a single app (that is *not* a game) that needs a beefy GPU? Because honestly in my 6 years of "tableting" I have never "met" one such app on Android.
Perceived performance, is partly what people call "smoothness", I'm actually *betting* that in parts it would be higher on an AOSP based ROM even with far worse hardware.
Total ram amount of an android machine is probably one of the most important factors on perceived performance too. In all online speed-tests android phones with higher RAM absolutely destroy lower ram devices simply because they cache more data (be it youtube buffer, background apps, OS assets). RAM caching is huge in perceived performance. 4GB is basically mid-end at this point. 6GB was last year's absolute high end, 8GB is this year's.
Expect those devices to be faster even if they sport worse SoCs. In general Samsung's ROMs are not exactly kings in either "smoothness", example:
or "every-day-speed": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwED6s3rCQ
RAW performance is what you use in things like encoding or compiling. Again those are territories of x86 machines. But if you do use your tablet as your primary compiling, encoding, adding-filters machine, be my guest and regard RAW performance as importnat. As for me I'm running Linux just fine, sure I have to VPN my compiles and I would prefer to be able to do some of them locally (I can but it is slow), but something tells me that SD 820's 2x RAW per core performance won't work wonders (it would still be slow for my purposes).
But like I said if it's one of those things you make heavy use of be my guest to prefer S3 ... just for having to use such a ridiculous screen -though- I would not. Having my productivity go down because of a ridiculously shaped screen and a tablet that offers no external monitor support is big no-no to me, I'd rather VPN my compiles...
BTW you keep referencing GSMarena's battery test, I don't know why. It's optimized for phones, not tablets. A tablet's use is much "heavier" and more varied. You can get actually SOT times by "asking" users, plenty of forums for you. What a surprise that a 8220 MaH battery actually performs better than a 6000 MaH battery in an environment that uses less resources (near stock android) . You're *not* going to get 10 hours with this tablet, I promise, in fact even 8 Screen-on hours would be a stretch. You do get 10 hours with 8000+ batteries though ... a matter of physics I guess, the bigger the battery the longer it lasts ... what a surprise... especially when it is 35% bigger (!)
Anonymous, 26 Mar 2017I told you what I call primary stuff on an android tablet.
Software is one (and yes LineAge... moreFirst of all, please reply to my message (don't post a new comment, that's cowardly)
For most people, the world doesn't revolve around LineAge OS (and it's weekly updates). Why depend on un-stable 3rd party ROM's and nightly builds, when Samsung's grace UX works perfectly fine. Also clearly the core S-Pen features are baked into Grace UX, and you lose those when you use your third-party ROMs.
I myself prefer QHD, but nowadays everyone uses iPad's screen ratio (Can't do anything about it). Other than QHD, everything is in Tab S3's favor. You want to watch movies? It offers better contrast, brighter colors & more sunlight legibility with HDR 10 support. It's Super AMOLED screens mean black bars looks truly Black, so infact, even original Tab S is better than Note 10.1's LCD. If Tab S3's 275 ppi is low for you, then you need to get your eyes checked.
You said: "Also the fact that Note 10.1 already has quite decent stereo speakers downgrade S3's edge on that too."
2 stereo speakers vs 4 stereo speakers tuned by AKG-Harman. Enough said!
You said: "With the latest Nougat weekly I get 10 SOT with Note 10.1"
Please don't quote blind numbers. Show some proof from a good source.
You said: "S pen is primary too". Sure, LineAge OS must be providing you with a lot of S-Pen features, more than Grace UX, right? (Haha, Liar spotted)
Good thing you have a holster, since it must have never been removed from there considering all the S-Pen support from LineAge OS.
Camera's? Ever heard of Tele-conferencing? Video Conferences? Skype? Tablets are used for that, because business men don't hold group conferences on their smartphones.
You said: "You simply don't take tablets everywhere with you. I much prefer to not have a lockscreen to begin with. It's not as if I'm storing my tablet in my pocket and it will wake up by mistake and start calling numbers. Lockscreens are useful in phones. In tablets and laptops are only useful for security, but tablets being more of a home item are less of a need of it (as compared to phones or laptops)"
Tablets are not just home items. Power users/ Designers use it for work because of the big screen-productivity and the ability to create/draw using S-Pens. They need lockscreen security because of the confidentiality/importance of their work & not because of your stated excuse. You would know about it unless you are still living in your parent's basement.
You said: "USB C. You gain what? Omni-directional port? Wow......USB C would be a beast in the future, currently it's a cosmetic change."
Cosmetic change (only)? It shows how much you know about it. USB-C and USB 3.1 are different. You can have USB type-C with even v2.0. The Tab S3 has v3.1. Please research before you post. Start by googling about USB 3.1......
If you are a casual lightweight gamer, the Adreno 330 may be fine. But GPU isn't just used for gaming. Designers need it for better graphic processing. Even for gaming, the Note 10.1 is already at a disadvantage with the higher resolution and the Tab S3's Adreno blows it out of the water.
You said: *Percieved Performance* (Your spelling of perceived is wrong BTW)
So now we must abandon standard benchmarks and test according to what is your "perceived performance". Stop making stuff up. We, power users, do a lot of video encoding BTW and the difference readily shows (The S7 edge's SD820 destroys the Note 10.1's ageing SD800 in both single-core and multi-core).
You said: "it's only 1GB more in RAM". So what do you want a 100GB more? And like you said it's of a different LPDDR variety. (Read/Write speeds are amped up).
You said: "but it would also be running a far heavier OS (Samsung 's variety of android)." Umm, 2012 called, they want your comment back. Samsung's OS is feature-rich, but their interface is snappy with no perceivable lag. Also, it's a known fact in the tech world, that currently no manufacturer optimizes their OS for battery life than Samsung. For a given battery capacity and a resolution, Samsung's new devices, more often than not, offer the best battery life.
Just check new devices in GSMArena's battery life table (link provided, and don't quote your own SOT numbers with no verified source.)
I told you what I call primary stuff on an android tablet.
Software is one (and yes LineAgeOS with weekly support is a better software than Samsung Roms)
Screen is second (amoled is preferable obviously, but the low PPI and antiquated aspect ratio of S3 are a big no no in this day and age).
Audio is obviously better and it's *not* "secondary", but given Tab S3's weird aspect ratio it would be far from ideal for watching media. Still for music Tab S3 is clearly the best option.
So while audio is very important , S3's inability to play media properly (ie without huge black bars) does downgrade its importance. Also the fact that Note 10.1 already has quite decent stereo speakers downgrade S3's edge on that too.
A fourth important thing on a tablet is autonomy. With the latest Nougat weekly I get 10 SOT with Note 10.1 ... let me see S3 even approach it. And I get it with 25% brightness and WiFi on while asleep.
S pen is primary too. But it's a wash there given that you can always buy a weighted pen for Note 10.1 ... plus you have a holster for the time that you want to make a lighter use (with a lighter pen).
Storage is a wash too. It may come as a surprise to you but I'm currently using a 256GB micro SD , in my Note 10.1 . Oh it's file system is NTFS too, supporting extra big files.
What's a gimmick:
The cameras. Seriously do you ever use your tablet for photography? Honestly how comfortable is it. I mean let's disregard the my phone probably already has a better camera. I very much doubt that anyone uses 1lbr uncomfortably big camera that actually produces worse results than most phones... It's good for the occasional messenger video call and that's it...
The fingertip scanner. Far less need to lock a tablet as tightly. You simply don't take it everywhere with you. It's nice to have, but nowhere near as important as in phones. I much prefer to not have a locks creen to begin with. It's not as if I'm storing my tablet in my pocket and it will wake up by mistake and start calling numbers. Lockscreens are useful in phones. In tablets and laptops are only useful for security, but tablets being more of a home item are less of a need of it (as compared to phones or laptops)
USB C. You gain what? Omnidirectional port? Wow. I have MHL (that I'm using all the time), otg like you do and support of most chargers in existence. USB C would be a beast in the future, currently it's a cosmetic change.
GPU. OK if you're gaming it's huge, still haven't played a title that didn't play well in my Note tablet. I guess certain ultra new 3d titles, which btw is a tiny minority, most of which are built for phones anyway. All the casual games play flawlessly on Note tablet too.
Raw performance. Unless you encode or compile on your tablet *a lot* is not that important. *Perceived performance* is important but given that Note 's harddware flies when running Vanilla android (via the LineageOS) it's not as if you'd be very wanting of extra performance. Also don't forget S3 despite being almost 4 years later, it's only 1GB more in RAM , so it's not as if much has happened in that front. Sure it's a faster ram, but it would also be running a far heavier OS (samsung 's variety of android).
Anonymous, 25 Mar 2017Yeah Samsung is a closed platform since you cannot unlock the bootloader without losing warran... more" You're right that it is better in secondary stuff like raw performance and cameras. "
Oh okay, so in the comparison between Note 10.1 and Tab S3, raw performance and camera's are secondary stuff!
Let me guess, SD820's increased performance, better efficiency and 14 nm architecture must also be secondary stuff.
The Super AMOLED screen, Grace UX, Android Nougat (with support beyond Android O) & the vastly improved GPU are also secondary stuff.
So is the support for 256GB MicroSD Card and the base configuration of 32GB memory and the 4GB RAM.
The 13MP, f/1.9, HDR, 4K recording rear camera's are definitely secondary stuff along with their upgraded front cameras.
Ofcourse having "only" 4 stereo speakers tuned by Harman-AKG is secondary stuff.
And let's not forget secondary stuff like Type-C v3.1 USB connector, the fingerprint scanner and bigger & better S-Pen.
What's primary stuff is whether it can run LineAge OS. But the Tab S3 is better "only" at the above-mentioned secondary stuff, so it must be a downgrade, right?
Obi Wan Kenobi, 25 Mar 2017OK, so you don't know the difference between closed vs open platform. I'm not going to waste a... moreYeah Samsung is a closed platform since you cannot unlock the bootloader without losing warranty. Lot's of homebrew development on ios without losing warranty.
Find eponymous ones on actual sites like xda where there are user reviews. You never get get more than 8 hours screen on time unless you have greenefied everything and use the lowest screen setting.
I switched no topic, I just said that at $600 tab S3 with an SD820 and 4GB of ram is no match (performance and battery wise) to the new iPad which sells @ $330. I then added that even a Note from almost 4 years ago has -by comparison- positive values.
Note 10.1 is 16:10 , 2560x1600, btw
Since the screen is the most important thing on a tablet, it's a huge plus that I have a bigger screen, with a better aspect ratio, with a better PPI. All very important for reading and noting.
Thus far S3 is a downgrade.
You're right that it is better in secondary stuff like raw performance and cameras.
About the battery, it's mostly the screen that is being more economical. Note 10.1's screen is indeed a drain. *However* with a new battery (once every year I buy and put a new battery on my tablet, since it's literally a 4 screws, 5 minutes situation that even an amateur like me can do) I can easily do 9 hour screen on time and lately (using the official Lineage Nougat release) I do almost 10! That's the most I ever got on any android device. Yes, that's significant! No wonder, Note 10.1 uses a 8220 mah battery, which is huge!
Also Note 10.1 supports native linux running on top (again there is a guide on xda). I like to use my tablets for productivity too without having to resort to the awful windows environment.
So it's unclear where the trouncing comes from. The improvements on hardware are combated by better software (native android via LineAgeOS, native linux via chroot) on Note 10.1...
BTW you're anonymous too. Using a username doesn't make you eponymous unless you have linked your username with your actual whereabouts.
Up to now i still thinking that Sony z4 tablet is still the best in terms of Android. Considering the tablet is more than 2 years old.
Anonymous, 25 Mar 2017I own the Tab Z4. It's 7-8 screen on time. Tab S2 was around 6 hours, I expect Tab S3 to be 7 ... moreOK, so you don't know the difference between closed vs open platform. I'm not going to waste any time explaining that to you.
Should I trust your anonymous SOT times or believe GSMArena's times which I myself have corroborated?
It's funny how you switched the topic to supporting the Note 10.1 and abandoned your support for the iPad. The 17:9 QHD screen is my favorite preference too, but alas what Apple does, others copy.
But otherwise the Tab S3 trumps the Note 10.1 (which I love very much BTW).
The Tab S3 has a smaller battery than the Note 10.1? Ofcourse it does, dummy, it's screen is smaller, has less resolution and it uses a newer efficient 14nm chipset.
The Tab S3 doesn't have a S-Pen holster because the Pen is now the size of a proper big Pen, making it better for more realistic and precise drawing.
And in every other way, the Tab S3 trounces the Note 10.1 (2014 edition) which is obvious since it was actually released in 2013 and already started to show it's age some time ago. I should now, I have actually used it, Mr. Anonymous.
Obi Wan Kenobi, 25 Mar 2017No one said the dearth of new Android tablets is a good thing. (Oh how I wish for a Z4 Tablet ... moreI own the Tab Z4. It's 7-8 screen on time. Tab S2 was around 6 hours, I expect Tab S3 to be 7 hours at most. GSMarena battery test is ill suited for tablet use (tablets are used very differently than phones).
By comparison iPad Air 2 had 10 hours of screen on time and given the better battery used in the new one plus the more efficient SoC I expect something like 12 to 13 hours of screen on time.
What are you talking about? Tab S3 is equally locked. Once you unlock the bootloader, knox efuse is triggered and you lose the warranty permanently. By contrast jailbreak in your iPad (and thus opening it up to all sorts of mods) does *not* kill the warranty (you can always revert to official iOS version and claim warranty since there is no such thing as an e-fuse) I don't even like ipads but I don't like to make them look worse for no good reason.
As for me my primary tablet is a Galaxy Note 10.1 2014, bought 3.5 years ago. It *still* beats this Tab S3 in several key aspects (bigger battery, S-pen holster, official LineAgeOS support, higher PPI screen, better aspect ratio for reading and watching videos). So yeah, this Tab S is a weak offering, espec at that price. You are way too lax with your standards...
Anonymous, 25 Mar 2017And how is that a good thing? In fact that's exactly the issue, that we keep accepting low ser... moreNo one said the dearth of new Android tablets is a good thing. (Oh how I wish for a Z4 Tablet Replacement!) And in today's dearth of good tablets, I'm just frankly happy that Samsung hasn't abandoned the market and has given us a new flagship tablet.
If you like the iPad, buy it! But the closed iOS ecosystem is a big problem for me.
You complain about the battery. The Sony Xperia Z4 tablet with QHD screen, 6000 mAh and a more inefficent SD810 had a stellar 101 hour battery endurance. And so I'm pretty sure the Tab S3 will fare even better.
And plus, it has many specs/features the iPad doesn't have:
S-Pen stylus (no battery or charging required, 4096 pressure points difference)
Android Nougat (7.0) (Native Multitasking and all.....)
MicroSD Card Slot
Both front and rear cameras are way superior to that of the iPad. Oh, and the iPad still has a 1.2 MP selfie camera in 2017.
4 Tuned Stereo Speakers.
Some power users need such high-end specs with an open ecosystem and the iPad simply doesn't it.
Obi Wan Kenobi, 25 Mar 2017And can you name one Android Tablet (other than the Tab S3) that has SD820 (last year's hardwa... moreAnd how is that a good thing? In fact that's exactly the issue, that we keep accepting low service for years to the point that they've started offering sh*t specs.
I can name a tablet with equal specs and probably better tablet ecosystem though sold for $325. It's called the iPad, I honestly can't see Tab S3 beating it at this price , with this low battery...
Anonymous, 24 Mar 2017You do know that they use last year's hardware in this years's prices. Right?And can you name one Android Tablet (other than the Tab S3) that has SD820 (last year's hardware)?!
And BTW a $599 starting price is not so bad for the Tab S3 and it's specs, considering the dearth of new flagship tablets.
NOBODY wants Win 10, it's spyware. Try Ubuntu or some other Linux distro. poor choice of OS. Start again.
Obi Wan Kenobi, 24 Mar 2017Really great ads for some really great devices.You do know that they use last year's hardware in this years's prices. Right?
Yeah, they really deserves a bit of hype. Good job Samsung. And i hope that Samsung will do the same and even much more better for the S8