AnonD-632809, 06 May 2017Lol, "innovation has been more present with the Surface Pro 4..." If you consider an increment... moreI made the point of the Surface Pro because it was the device that truly positioned them as Reference hardware.... and it has been the 2-in-1 device to compare ever since it came out.... Innovation can come from many angles, not only the inclusion of features.... Innovation can come from refining and improving existing tech, and Apple has been a master of that.... They almost never INVENT, but rather they take what already exist and implement it in an INNOVATIVE way, however recently this feel stale.
When you see Apple bringing products to market as an answer to Microsoft, this indirectly tells you that they are trying to play catch up.
The Surface Pro 3/4 innovated with the kickstand, the magnetic keyboard cover, Windows Hello, Surface Pen (emulating real feelings), and form factor.
The Surface Book has many innovations, and I as a Mechanical Engineer marvel at the implementation of NiTiNol memory metal in the "muscle wire" system... It is just a brilliant idea that, in my experience, works great. The hinge is also a very clever innovation from the functionality POV, since aesthetically is very subjective... but being able to achieve a base extension to prevent unbalance from being a top-heavy device is also innovative.
On the other hand, the "Touchbar" is something I have drawings from 3 years ago when I thought it would be cool to implement some kind of screen strip at the top of a keyboard, however my design kept the function key row and I did it thinking of an external keyboard, I never actually thought about it in a laptop.... Having said that, the idea implemented by Apple is a tad better than what I came up with, but I wouldn't call it revolutionary or a must-have... but after using a Surface Pro 3 from my office for about a month, I immediately knew that my next device had to be a 2-in-1.
Anyway I respect your opinion, and I agree that both companies sell overprice devices, however right now I rather pay that price, rather than deal with lower prices and worse customer service.... In my country there is absolutely no service from almost no company so I need to have a "bullet proof" device from the get-go.
DQ, 05 May 2017Lol, I never stated that Microsoft is innovating with the Surface Laptop... however innovation... moreLol, "innovation has been more present with the Surface Pro 4..." If you consider an incremental upgrade to be some form of innovation, you might as well just say that Apple's iPhone 5S has been a innovation over the iPhone 5. And once again, where is the USB Type-C port? How is it going to remain futureproof?
As for the Surface Studio and Surface Book, you can't really say that these are more of an innovation compared to what Apple has to offer. I'd say that they're currently on par with one another. The Studio has that nice, big touchscreen with the Zero-Gravity hinge, while the Book packs good hardware in a relatively slim body. But the Macbooks are equally impressive with the Touchbar and 4 USB Type-C Thunderbolt ports.
In conclusion, I'd say that both companies are equally innovative, but there are times when they come out with a product that hasn't been thought out very well.
P.S. I'm not a fan of both companies, and IMO, both are overpriced.
Anonymous, 03 May 2017Bad idea. If they lock down the OS all move to Linux and Android. No developer wants to be cen... moreYes but you will still have full rights to distribute it how you see. It's just the people that create the most problems for the OS would never have their apps signed so the OS would never run them to begin with. Developers just need their tools and to be able to do what they need to do. It's not spying having your code signed. They will be ensuring the future of their software by going UWP. You can cry they will go to linux but the reality is that the Desktop world is dying. Everyone will be in a locked down OS eventually. Windows is no different than android if you look at it from another perspective. The difference is Windows by default lets you run none store UWP apps while android you have to go out of your way to enable them. If you create enough customization to make the techies happy but make the default simple for the dumbest customers it will work.
If you truly look at the w32 apps out there, there are rarely any apps that are doing anything that can't be done in UWP. The ones that are doing things like that are usually a smaller group of people. Example would be a ps3 controller driver that a chinese developer created. What I found was that it was actually creating a server and downloading things in the background that were encrypted but no one really cared cuz their controller worked. Windows 10 actually saw it as a risk and it doesn't work anymore. At least it didn't. I don't care I got an xbox one controller and actually was happy because it is the best controller I have used.
I'm getting to the point where I don't want to be messing with things. I want my OS to just work and not have to worry. Time is not as unlimited as it once was for me. MS is doing everything to allow development from linux virtual machines, linux subsystem, complete support of anything in visual studio, xamarin for free. I mean how many developers need to do really crazy stuff out there?
UWP is an evolution of w32. It assures you will be on future hardware because PC hardware may just die eventually.
AnonD-632809, 03 May 2017Wait, what? First, you said that Microsoft is better than Apple when it comes down to innovati... moreLol, I never stated that Microsoft is innovating with the Surface Laptop... however innovation has been more present with the Surface Pro 4, Surface Book, Surface Studio, than what Apple has offer lately.
The comment is not contradictory when you take into accounts recent offerings and not just this one product...
I think that both the Surface Laptop and Windows 10s are just lazy proposals... but I understand why they are trying to do it, and that is to get more people on board with the Windows Store, so they can actually have an OK market place...
almost every Microsoft user is using it for 2 reasons:
1- support: the number of apps that runs on windows & number of users
2- balance: not as expansive as a mac, and yet, cheaper alternatives like chromebook or linux are so limited.
Surface Laptop has non of the 2 that made microsoft a successful platform.
krystian, 03 May 2017Windows 8 on its own was a big failure. So that alone would not get more apps into the store.... moreBad idea. If they lock down the OS all move to Linux and Android. No developer wants to be censored by Microsoft or spied by Microsoft thorough suck approvals. Then UWP is a mess, ugly code which is not easy to be mastered by large amounts, average programmers, hence failure to put ideas into apps and make popular Microsoft store. You have no idea how choosy get the hiring companies for app development and indirectly that complexity, nitpicking gurus dooms MS app store. In the end you learn app dev on Windows and get jobless.
AnonD-39937, 02 May 2017if you want an OS made for browsing with a mobile store then you can buy a Chromebook for a fr... moreBut it's not just for browsing. It will have powerful tools like office 365 and others that are being ported over.
Furthermore there are cheaper alternatives released from hp/acer/dell etc.. A lot of them starting at $189. It also comes with a free upgrade to pro for the first while. So those who want it will take it. Those who don't care, won't. Honestly other than a few apps like Steam, newsleecher and a few different browsers, I typically only use store apps. The store sucks for finding good stuff but it's there hidden. That's one of the biggest problems too.
In the state it is in now it's not the best no doubt, but MS is hoping to try and fix that. So it may be sometime before it's even a viable alternative.
melvingutierrez, 02 May 2017you have a point, about thats ms need to make a alliance with majority dev to por w32 app to t... moreWindows 8 on its own was a big failure. So that alone would not get more apps into the store. UWP has really evolved for developers and of course they are providing so many tools to make things easy.
Ultimately they want more apps in the store, but w32 and windows 7 are holding them back. They are going into the locked down OS thing slowly. Honestly. My view is that the OS should be locked down to allow only signed MS apps not just store apps. So say a developer creates a UWP app. They submit it to MS for approval. MS approves and signs it. They can then choose to use the MS store or even put it elsewhere like on the web. It will make transitioning from w32 easier and it will still keep things secure as the apps have been signed. Any tampering the OS would reject.
The price is whopping not the sales. Windows 10 had 40% more security vulnerabilities than any other version of the operating system according to security firm Avecto, I prefer Windows 7.
It's mid 2017 -still stuck with proprietary charge port's? instead of universal "USB C" charging,,,,they are soo SICK!!!
DQ, 03 May 2017I have a Surface Book (1st Gen, i7/16/512/NVidia) and I understand your confusion....
The e... moreWait, what? First, you said that Microsoft is better than Apple when it comes down to innovation, but in the next paragraph, you mention that they should have included at least one USB Type-C port. I don't get it. Both statements seem quite contradictory.
How is this product considered an innovation by Microsoft if it lacks a Type-C/Thunderbolt 3 port? Where's the innovation? The Alcantara covered keyboard? The non-detachable form factor?
Zune, 03 May 2017not true, first of all, apple uses the higher TDP version of the ultra low voltage processor, ... moreYou are partially wrong....
the Surface Laptop has a 7th Generation Intel CPU type U (not Y/M) so the TDP not only matches the one you would find in the MacBook Pro 13", it would beat it on efficiency.
The GPU varies from the HD up to the Iris line... so for the first 2 configurations, the MacBook have a better GPU, however the top 2 config of the Surface Laptop have Iris 640 which currently beat the ones you would find on the top MBPro with Touchbar.
As for your pricing, the official price of the MacBook Pro w TB (i7,512,16) is $2300
The official price of the Surface Laptop (i7,512,16) is $2200.
With the Mac you will get thunderbolt 3, touchbar and probably better sound...
With the Surface you would get touchscreen, better battery and no need for dongles (atm).
AnonD-656940, 02 May 2017I'm honestly a little confused as to who this device is for. Who exactly wants to spend 1K on ... moreI have a Surface Book (1st Gen, i7/16/512/NVidia) and I understand your confusion....
The entire Surface line was supposed to be a Reference line for other OEMs to copy or get inspired by it. See how we now have many Surface Pro clones and lookalikes, that alone means that the Surface strategy worked.
In my humble opinion I also think that devices manufactured by the same OS developer tend to be more efficient and provide a better experience, that is why I ended up getting the Surface Book instead an Asus UX303UB or a Dell XPS 13 or even the Razer Blade. If I have an issue there is only one company to deal with, and Microsoft support is better than the others (second to Apple of course).
Yes, the Surface Book is almost as expensive as what Apple ask for their MacBooks counterparts, but they are also just as good in terms of quality, and they are even better when it comes down to innovation, which Apple has been lacking lately.
So regarding to your post, $1000 does seem pretty high for what you get. I would have started with a base model of 8GB of RAM. And Microsoft should have included at least 1 USB Type C for future proofing, however the whole concept is to create a reference device so that other OEMs get onboard with selling cheaper alternatives for students and conquer the educational market.
In my eyes, the value of the Surface Laptop is that you can immediately upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, and the experience will be similar to my Surface Book (except for the Clipboard moments). It is noteworthy that this Surface Laptop is just 14.5 mm at its thickest point, which is the same thickness of my Surface Book at its thinnest! (mind the gap).
For my type of work and profession, the Surface Book is the perfect companion, but I would love to get a Surface Laptop (upgraded to W10Pro) for my wife, since she has simpler needs, and the design would appeal her a lot, however the baseline model wont cut it just yet.
PLAYER SLAYER, 02 May 2017Windows 10 S? I'm sorry, but between that, and the cripplingly terrible port selection, I don'... moreGsma didn't include that Microsoft states that you can switch to Windows 10 Pro any time you want.
Anonymous, 02 May 2017So is this replacement for Surface pro 4? Where is the Surface pro 5?Hope ao!, the whole 2in1 fad was so silly. Windows is so bad as a tablet OS.
Looking for a new laptop this year and this will not be my choice. First, no detachable screen then I can buy a dell, hp, lenovo at a cheaper price and better features. Second, no usb type c to charge up the laptop. Third, WinRT again? haven't they learn the lessson yet?