Lex79, 15 Oct 2017And I agree fully to your points, on the proviso though that what is considered acceptable in ... moreThank you for your reasoned opinions. I also had a fairly large Canon EOS DSLR set and I let it go for the same reasons as you, it was expensive and heavy to carry around, I was hesitant leaving the bag into the trunck of a car because such an insurance covering the potential loss would have been very expensive or unavailable. However I chose a "better quality" compact digicam for the special moments, since the digital compact really offers a better picture quality than any phone camera. Digicamera's sensors are of higher quality and they have better lenses with optical zoom. In contrast, I use a phone camera a lot of for many practical purposes, e.g. I do not collect physical business cards, I take photos of them (and Goggles does OCR when I need it). I collect photos of wine bottle labels, so I know what I've tasted or drank and how they tasted for me, I collect various such everyday documents as photos that may prove to be helpful or useful in the future, and so on. So for many purposes the phone camera is a ver good tool. But still I am longing for the DSLR silky-smooth, vivid color, high dynamic photos with f \ 2 bokeh.
Back to the 7.1.2 and the OTG storage media capability: The phone accepts up to 2TB HDDs (those 2.5 inch form-factor USB3 disks that also take the power from OTG). The directory format that I found to be compatible is FAT32 (exFat, NTFS are not compatible). The format function of the phone formats a 2TB partition with 32kB allocation blocks but phone does accept also e.g. FAT32 with16kB allocaton blocks (can be created e.g. using GParted that is found e.g. in the Slacko boot-USB however the 16kB block size require 2x larger directory structure so there really is no meaningful benefits to fiddle with this).
Surprisingly the phone can provide enough power from the OTG to run the 4TB Seagate Mobile Backup Plus USB3 HDD. But that disk is initially formatted as GPT disk with NTFS and the format function of the phone does not take the GPT into acount, so it formatted the 4TB disk as a 1.6TB disk. I used the Gparted to drop the disk into MBR, then created two primary partitions, and finally formatted both as FAT32 with 16kB block size (Fat32 partition can not exceed 2TB, therefore two partitions). The phone does accept this two partition disk (1.82TB on both partitions) but even with around 500GB on both partitions operations start to be irritatingly slow, e.g. it takes more than a 1 minute until both partitions gets error checked and mounted. So I will not be using 4TB disks. To conclude the phone operates smoothly with 2TB FAT32 disks (the basic limitations of the FAT32 are there, max file size is 4GB, max 255 character limit for the path, but LFN is supported).
Timo, 14 Oct 2017> Lex 79: " for some time now, the quality of the smartphone camera (at least in high end d... moreAnd I agree fully to your points, on the proviso though that what is considered acceptable in terms of image quality is purely within the domain of personal preference.
For my own example, I once owned a canon 600d, which as my meagre photography skills progressed I then upgraded to a newer 750d (t6i). I built quite a decent amount of kit around these two bodies, but after realising that progressing further was going to incure considerably higher costs. Plus the fact that chasing after two young children whilst carrying all that kit on various days out and what not was ultimately just too much hassle, I decided that a decent smartphone camera was a more convenient solution.
So I been over the last several years buying and swapping various high end smartphones, putting their cameras through their paces in the process. Can any of the devices I have tried match quality with those DSLR models....no, not close. Are they though perfectly acceptable, at least to my eyes....yes (few acceptions from some devices I will grant), and I do view a lot of the pictures I take on larger screen via chromecast.
That¬ís me though, I don¬ít pretend to be an authority on scientific analysis of digital image quality, I have always viewed myself more as an enthusiastic amateur fan of photography, like I said there is plentry of room for scope in the personal judgement of acceptable quality.
I take your other points on board however, and am in complete agreement with what you have said regarding battery performance. Also glad to hear that the recent update to the Nokia 6 has gone some way toward correcting your concerns.
Good discussing such things with you, nice to have an actual discussion on this site instead of just getting into another flame war with some overzealous fanboys :)
Lex79, 14 Oct 2017I would be surprised if the 6 did not take larger cards, in most cases the manufacturer stated... more> Lex 79: " for some time now, the quality of the smartphone camera (at least in high end devices) has been considered good enough by many to supplant whatever standalone camera type they were using previously."
Agreed fully. __Considered__ . That means that the appreciations (the expectations and values) of the general public/consumers have been _persuaded_ to accept the extremely low quality images. It is exactly the same what the digicamera industry has already done. But that has nothing to do with actual/factual photo quality.
If the path to ever higher quality photos would be to miniaturize the pixel area, the chip area and the dimensions of lenses, then why _every_ astronomer on the earth go towards larger pixel area, larger chip area and larger lenses, that cost millions or tens of million USD? When they could just use the smartphone?
If the path to ever higher quality photos would be to miniaturize the pixel area, the chip area and the dimensions of lenses, then why _every_ TV broadcaster use those heavy and large cameras that cost tens of thousands or hundred of thousand USD? When they could just use the smartphone?
The smartphone photos only appear to be good quality when they are down scaled and viewed on the small smartphone screen and when they are down scaled to the "web size". But when the time comes when one wants to enhance the photos, or to display the photos on say a 65" TV screen, or to print the photo at such size, then the reality hits, hard.
Considering the storage capability: Yes, I agree that the 'Nokia 6' with v-7.1.2 firmware will very likely accept larger than 128GB SD cards. Because I now know for sure that 'Nokia 6' with v-7.1.1 firmware only accepts up to 128 GB partitions but with v-7.1.2 firmware it accepts at least 2 TB partitions.
Considering the battery: "My own particular use case" is absolutely valid! A mobile phone/device is meant to be mobile, first and foremost. The longer it has "juice" the better _mobile_ device it is, surely. I can not be the only one who wants the mobile device to be as mobile as possible. Anyone who actually is using his/her phone (instead of just carrying it around) will very rapidly notice that the battery is one of the most critical component of the mobile gadget. But nobody never addresses his/her serious concerns about the battery capacity, or the actual chemistry of the battery or the actual manufacturer of the battery (different battery manufacturers hold different kind of important patents). So, e.g. 3000 mAh from one manufacturer (or from one type of chemistry) is not 3000mAh for all other products that are sold as being 3000 mAh. It depends greatly on what (the average) load and what the battery temperature is, and e.g. the electrical load affect differently to the battery temperature depending on the chemistry. But, no heavy weigh serious discussions about the batteries, ever, anywhere. It is much more easy(?) and important(?) to hold endless serious sermons about the imaginary differences between different smartphone cameras.
To conclude, I fully agree with you that there are people who will easily settle for less (for amazingly little). But that has nothing to do with real life quality, they simply adapt for less. And then there are people who are intentionally led to believe, when one hears the same story from several "authoritative" sources the story tends to change into absolute truth.
WOW, the 7.1.2 update makes it possible to use 2TB HDD (that have FAT32 format) through OTG with the 'Nokia 6'. That is, at least 2TB, I do have disks with bigger volume but I do not want to test with them since the disks must be formatted by the phone or perhaps using a 3rd party disk manager in Windows will also do.
GREAT upgrade. I also tested with exFat formatted disks but still no luck there.
So, the following happened:
A month or so ago, when the phone had the v-7.1.1 firmware I took a '2TB Seagate Backup Plus Portable Drive' (this is 2.5" form factor USB3 HDD that also takes power from the USB), it was initially formatted with an exFat partition and I tried to OTG mount it to the 'Nokia 6'. The phone said something like "unusable disk, must be formatted" so I allowed the format process, took a couple of minutes. Then I took the disk to Win7pro, dumped a lot of data to it, and the result in Windows was:
The type of the file system is FAT32.
Volume 2TB-FAT32 created 2017-08-30 21:32
Volume Serial Number is C423-2939
1,953,036,704 KB total disk space.
160 KB in 5 hidden files.
51,520 KB in 1,604 folders.
1,790,972,960 KB in 21,204 files.
162,012,032 KB are available.
32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
61,032,397 total allocation units on disk.
5,062,876 allocation units available on disk.
So, the allocation unit size is large'ish, 32kB, but considering that the *.jpg, *.mp3, *.wav, *.mp4 etc files are typically in order of several MB minimum, it is not a major issue (initially the disk had the same data-set but on exFat partition that had tiny 4096 B allocation unit size but the overall situation did not chance a lot).
However, back then with the v-7.1.1 FW in the phone, when I tried to OTG this disk, the phone did not accepted it, kept saying like "unusable disk, must be formatted" even after reboot.
But NOW with the v-7.1.2 FW the 'Nokia 6' does accept this disk and all the FileManager apps I have are happy with it also (AstroPro, ZArchiverPro, OI File Manager). No problems at all. When I OTG mount this disk (with all the data) the phone says in the 'Notifications' that it is checking it for errors, it takes about 17 seconds but it is good that it does the checking.
Here is a screenshot from 'Nokia 6': http://aijaa.com/EOsG7X showing the 'Storage Settings', the formatted volume of the USB disk is 1.82 TB and currently 1.67 TB is being used.
So, I'm half-happy. Now I only need to buy some 2TB HDDs, then format them to FAT32 and finally fill them with data. (There is also the 4TB Seagate HDD (2.5 inch form-factor, USB3 and powered from USB/OTG also) but it does take a little more power than the 2TB variant so I'm afraid that the phone might not have enough muscle for that.
Timo, 14 Oct 2017Sure, 256GB SD cards are available, but this phone, the Nokia 6, only accepts up to 128GB SD c... moreI would be surprised if the 6 did not take larger cards, in most cases the manufacturer stated upper limit ends up being provably false and that devices will take larger capacity cards, but then may show incorrect readings on available storage.
Also, this may be a tad presumptuous, but you sound as though you are describing your own particular use case as someone who does a lot of travelling. In which case the widely recommended gadget equipment list would include a basic smartphone that has a long lasting battery (something like the E4 Plus or such) for comms purposes / basic navigation, a compact laptop or hybrid with support for external HDD, and a decent DSLR.
It is incorrect to assume all smartphones cameras provide equal quality performance, there is a vast range of quality from the budget to high end (which in some cases has been shown to rival some lower to mid tier dedicated pocket cameras).
The point of a smartphone is not to out perform any of the dedicated devices whose functionality it mimics i.e. a camera, media player, mobile computer, navigation aid etc. (this could be a pretty long list), but instead to provide a convenient convergence device, that does indeed copy those functions on a daily basis, and to an acceptable level given the compromises made in the name of convenience.
To say that a smartphone camera cannot compete in terms of image quality with a pocket camera, is to also say that a pocket camera cannot compete with a bridge camera, which in turn cannot match quality with a basic DSLR. That basic DSLR will then come up short against a professional quality DSLR. It is an argument that fails to take into consideration what the smartphone camera was intended to do in the first place.
Most people looking to go see the wonders of the world are likley to invest in some higher quality and more versatile imaging equipment. Whether they could cope with just what they get out of their smartphone though is a personal choice.
I do not mean to belittle your points, your use cases and requirements are as valid as those of anyone else, and it sounds as though the Nokia 6 is coming up short for you in a few places here.
What I am trying to say is that for some time now, the quality of the smartphone camera (at least in high end devices) has been considered good enough by many to supplant whatever standalone camera type they were using previously. This is regardless of whether they are out and about on their daily business, or off on holiday. Yes there are exceptions to that, camera enthusiasts and professionals who will not part with their dedicated equipment for anything less. Even amoung such cases though there is a difference of opinion as to what
is an acceptable standard of quality. Some camera enthusiasts are still sticking with film for instance, citing that digital photography as a whole just does not cut it.
This post is a bit longer than I intended, sorry for that :)
Lex79, 14 Oct 2017You may well find it peculiar, all that feels me is that people have different use cases when ... moreSure, 256GB SD cards are available, but this phone, the Nokia 6, only accepts up to 128GB SD cards in FAT32 format, and that 128GB is almost all eaten by Here Maps data, music library and such personal data. Those who travel a lot save plenty in data-charges if they can use 2TB disks by OTG (and OTG transfer speed from/to HDD is also much faster than the fastest 4G). Similarly, frequent travelers save a lot in data-charges when they can use the Here Maps in offline mode. Also, there are plenty of destination in the world where you do not have any kind of mobile network at all, there too it is convent to have access to your huge HDDs.
Of course we all use smartphone cameras a lot. My point was that deeply serious discussions about those cameras is a secondary issue, it is totally futile issue because _all_ those cameras provide _equally_ very very very poor quality photos, no matter what is the manufacturer of the phone or the lens or the camera app. Even a humble pocket camera provides _much_ better quality photos. Sure, the smartphone cameras do have many uses, particularly in cases where the image size of the final photo is reduced down to 20% or less (in other words, when the number of pixels in the final photo is reduced down to 4% or less) or e.g. when the photo is used just as a note. But when you travel far away to see the wonders of the world, or other such exotic subjects/objects, then it shows very poor judgement to memorialize those precious moments using the incredibly poor quality smartphone camera, imho.
Timo, 13 Oct 2017So, I stuck my neck out and updated my Nokia 6 some hours ago. Luckily it went OK, the phone ... moreYou may well find it peculiar, all that feels me is that people have different use cases when purchasing devices with such broad ranging capabilities as a modern smartphone.
For instance, Someone who does not do a lot of regular, lengthy travelling may find your point of the amount of external storage this device can mount OTG a bit redundant as regards their own use case.
Sufficiently fast Micro SD cards with capacities up to 200gb can be purchased these days for pretty reasonable prices, that will likley provide the majority consumers with all of their storage requirements, at least it should suffice enough that they are not too concerned as to how much extra their can add via OTG.
Your other point as to what counts as a secondary function is also open to user interpretation. Whilst battery life is a major concern for most people I¬íll readily agree, I would argue that in the majority of buying cases, the camera counts far more as a primary function these days, as compared to OTG capabilities.
So, I stuck my neck out and updated my Nokia 6 some hours ago. Luckily it went OK, the phone still works and nothing seems to be broken. I have not found anything other changes than what has already been mentioned here.
I find it somewhat peculiar how seriously some people take some of the the secondary functions of these toys. A camera that has sensor with Bayer-pixel area in the range of 1 um x 1 um simply is not able to provide decent quality photos, no matter what the brand of the gadget or the lens is. The same goes with sound quality of the bare phone, high quality audio require 3-way loudspeakers that have about 1 m3 volume or more.
Not many people are interested about the specs that really matters, like the battery capacity and storage media connectivity.
It seems to me that Nokia 6 can not mount other than FAT32 formatted devices that have max 128GB volume, by OTG. In contrast, one of my 5 year old phone (that has Android 5.0) is able to mount exFat formatted 2TB external 2.5" USB HDD and can also provide the power that the HDD needs (for the duration of several hours) and all this through the OTG. Also, it is odd that manufacturers provide no detailed specs about the media connectivity though OTG) nor do the review people inspect the capabilities. One 2.5" 2TB HDD holds my full music library and several thousand movies in a very compact form factor and now I'm not able to have that luxury when traveling, that is a major downgrade for me.
Anonymous, 13 Oct 2017Use the frigging Google camera port. And camera UI!!!!! You think camera UI is bad? Who cares ... moreIf you do not care about camera ui then that is fine, your oem of choice can simply follow your requirements, put one button on screen and bury absolutely everything thing else in menus. Most rational people though like a well featured, carefully though out and intuitive ui.
Besides, That is just one of my issues with the Nokia 8 camera set up. Oh, and the Google camera port still does not work fully.
i should have gone for a nokia instead of the oneplus 5. We are still on 7.1.1 and on july security!!!
yup you heard it right, july security update. Oneplus 5 launched recently an OTA update to september (after 3 months without an update release) but it hit only the canadian market.
Leaving US, Europe out.
Coming from a Nexus lover i thought oneplus was a tad slower by updating their devices but come on. We are in october and i'm still on july.
Nokia is new to the android world and already its mid tier evice is on october security update.
Never again will i buy a dam oneplus and i don't recommend it to you guys either. It only has issues
IRFAN, 13 Oct 2017Nokia TA-1000 received just security patch of oct, not other updates, any body know why this ... moreMy 1033 is still on august patch...I might get 7.1.2 next year...there is hope on yours
Dddr, 13 Oct 2017That is the thing. Even gsmarena review says it provides some great photos while you only have... moreWhat are you talking about? You make no sense whatsoever.
One time I supported Nokia products? Well not that I have to prove anything to you, but I have owned many Nokia's going back as far as the 3210....and again I PURCHASED A NOKIA 8!!!!!!!. Did I not make that clear in my last comment?
Yes the GSMarena review said it takes good photos, that is just one of many reviews out there though, here's a couple more:
Notice how none of them are exactly blown away by the camera quality....well neither was I.
Not to keep going back to the obvious or anything again, but this article is about the 6, not the 8!!!
Let me ask you the same very silly question, how do you support Nokia products?? Have you got an 8????
Nokia TA-1000 received just security patch of oct, not other updates, any body know why this happened?
Lex79, 12 Oct 2017Well thats quite the rant, 1st I would suggest you take a breath and calm down. Second, I ... moreThat is the thing. Even gsmarena review says it provides some great photos while you only have to say all bad about it. Tell me one time you have supported Nokia products. People like you are reading this article to point out what mistakes Nokia supporters make in their comments. But you haven't tried correct and to point out what the other person who was a Nokia has said. He tells that Sony provides Android 8 update while not any phone that has been released before Android 8 except Google phones has not been updated to Oreo. Only XZ compact which comes out with is the only one with Android Oreo. And xiaomi ma1 it is not even updated to Android Oreo even though it is a Android one project phone. And keep in mind no xiaomi phones that is with their ui has not been updated to 7.1.2.
Lex79, 12 Oct 2017Well thats quite the rant, 1st I would suggest you take a breath and calm down. Second, I ... moreUse the frigging Google camera port. And camera UI!!!!! You think camera UI is bad? Who cares about camera UI? That's the last thing anyone will even think of. As long as there is a button to click, it's going to be fine.
Waist of bandwidth. They should just updated all their hand set to Android 8
Hi, to those of you who have upgraded Your Nokia 6 to version 7.1.2, please do post your findings.
I'm still with v.7.1.1 and the v.7.1.2 has been available now for the duration of 12h and 32 minutes already. But I'm extremely scary to make the upgrade since it is like a jump into a blackhole, there is no way back from there.
My last two phones were v.4.3 when I bough them and they were great, had no problems what so ever. Then the v.4.4.2 came and I foolishly upgraded, it was a very very very bad upgrade for the users but anyhow the phones still worked. Then came v.5.0 and I eagerly upgraded, only to find out that the phones were rebooting themselves about two times a day and also their behavior was severely erratic in many other ways. And the v.5.1 never appeared. So that upgrade practically bricked my two phones (and I never ever buy anything that bears the name of that brand).
Dddr, 12 Oct 2017Why are you people targeting hmd and Nokia. What is your problem. I don't go and bad-mouth pho... moreWell thats quite the rant, 1st I would suggest you take a breath and calm down.
Second, I have nothing against Nokia or HMD or else I would not have spend £499 on one of their products in the first place.
Third, my comments which you have mentioned were regarding the Nokia 8 (this article is about the 6, which I have never used), and in my experience the camera on the 8 is slow, painfully so in fusion mode (where it merges images from both sensors). Other problems are that the focus system is inconsistent with its accuracy, there is no exposure compensation or AF/AE lock option, the manual mode is a joke and the portrait mode practically destroys detail in shots (take one, them zoom in on the finished image, you will quickly see what I mean).
So again, no I have nothing against them but the camera software on the 8 is in dire need of fixing. If they get that done then they have a great product on their hands.
Oh and my post to you was merely to point out the fact that calling others ignorant whilst not potentially knowing all the facts yourself is perhaps not the best move.
ME, 12 Oct 2017Nokia 7.1.2 is not the way... try to speed up your updates, my Sony has already the 8.Are you okie? May I ask what model are you using? Nokia 6 was launched back on the Jan of this year so which Xperia Model that commenced on Jan this year was running Oreo? Besides than that may I ask which Xperia Old Model gets an UI enhancements renovated be it a major or minor updates? Cut the crab as Xperia only provides accurate monthly security patches. Other than that, it provides totally zero new features!