s4f786, 23 Oct 2017Man I remember buying the Sony Ericsson satio back in the day running on Symbian Lol, the xeno... moreSony Ericsson satio was a really good phone, camera was amazing for its time, and better than some smart phones today (moto c)
I hope everybody reads this!
I am an avid reader who loves GSMA articles. I am not here to prove anyone right or wrong, but when I feel culture is being hampered, I jump in with (perhaps silly) points.
Sorry Mr Peter, but I disagree with - "We find dual cameras more enticing as they offer flexibility in photography you can’t match with pure resolution – wide-angle or telephoto lens, portrait mode and better low-light perfomance."
Dual cameras have actually ruined the ethics of photography.
To put my point, I'd like to take an example of a Nokia 808 compared to an iPhone 7 Plus (or anything that you can imagine of your own). As of now, dual cameras give us portrait, tele angle, monochrome, wide angle etc.
I believe I can prove all of this to be 'senseless'.
Before that, let us keep in mind, that, modern smartphones, to keep the ergonomics in check, either use high resolution sensor, or a high quality sensor. Because if squeezed beyond limits, the sensor is of no use, and if kept original, you'd not have such slim phones, atleast in 2017.
Now first of all, "Portrait" or Blurred background, this is a phrase from an article at GSMA (Photo Finnish, Nokia 808 PureView review):
...the Nokia 808 PureView has a relatively long focal length for a phone - 8.02mm, which combined with the f/2.4 aperture makes for some noticeably shallower depth of field and allows for cool bokeh effects (and those are real, not down to software processing)...
Catch- A pure blur/bokeh is caused by a larger sensor. to counter that, the companies have added a second sensor to calculate depth and 'emulate' bokeh which is fake and looks so much stupid to trained eyes. Because a person standing 50ft behind you and a person standing 100 ft behind you looks the same in artificial blur, because already, the phones lack a bigger sensor to create an actual depth. The internet has already seen a tsunami of these fake bokeh pics thanks to dual camera engineers.
The second, "Tele" or "Zoom", this is a phrase from an article at GSMA (Jugger-note, Samsung Galaxy Note 3 review):
...During 1080p video recording you can zoom up to 4x times with the Galaxy Note 3 retaining the same quality up to 2x zoom (because the camera is capable of the double 2160p resolution)...
Catch- Resolution is your canvas. The more you have, the more you play. In 8 MP mode, Nokia 808 can zoom more than 3x. That's more than what your dual lens offers. Using single lense for zoom also has a very big advantage, which is explained below-
But before that, here is another phrase (Interview with D. Dinning, Nokia 808 PureView in focus):
...typical optical zoom, as you zoom, you end up with 5.6 aperture for example, so that means we have 5.4 times more light reaching our sensor with our maximum zoom versus an optical zoom...
Catch- Obviously we were not talking about optical zoom, but using a wide lens is actually a variation of optical zoom, where you practically stick to either 1x or 2x (or 1.6x in special cases). Tele lenses have smaller aperture, thats why Apple and Samsung both use digital zoom from main lens in low light, which, sort of, cancels the purpose of two lenses. And also, digital zoom might have helped if it was from a higher resolution source.
The third, "Wide" angle: Congrats, I have not seen a proper alternative to wide lenses, but I think we still have two things in our arsenal: Panamera and, oh sorry, I am so much obsessed with Porsche. Its Panorama and Nokia. Panorama imaging was designed to capture wide sceneries. Slowly they became 360 deg images and have completely different meaning. Nokia, on the other hand, designed PureView lenses in such a way that you could use two different resolutions without cropping either. The 16:9 images from any PureView phone are wider than their 4:3 counterpart. Though I agree it cannot be called a proper wide lens, but then, we have accesories!
And 4th, "Monochrome": This, I believe can be replicated with any well designed app with mild knowledge of tones. Monochrome sensors are said to capture more details, but apart from paintings and magazines, in my personal opinion, I see no use of original Monos from sensor over artificial Monos via software.
So untill and unless companies come up with a logical use for dual cameras like 3D recording or some sort of usefull AR, it is technically sensless.
Dual cameras have sort of altered the imaging culture. Photography requires quality and experience, but some major companies are trying to change it and some minor companies (Ovvo and Pipo, I am talking to you) are maing fun of it.
Makes me sad. :(
Hoffmann, 22 Oct 2017Living proof that higher resolution doesn't neccesarily mean better camera is the HTC One M9. ... moreLiving proof that megapixels used the correct way(downsampling) is the Nokia 808 with its 41MP is still unbeaten to this day
All i need right now : Nokia 808 Sensor With Pureview technology & ND Filter & Xinon Flash / LG V30 Glass Lens with F1.6 / Apple OIS System / Sony integrated RAM on Sensor for SlowMotion . Peace!!
For sure the megapixel count is not the only one, that make a camera great.
But high megapixel, with right optics and assembly, with dedicated photo processor, lead to Nokia 808, Nokia 1020.
Still, there is no successor of that kind of phones.
Hope Nokia, or HMD to produce such device in next years.
Again, to be camera king.
Man I remember buying the Sony Ericsson satio back in the day running on Symbian Lol, the xenon flash on that was so good, we need to see xenon flash on modern day devices!
Hoffmann, 22 Oct 2017Living proof that higher resolution doesn't neccesarily mean better camera is the HTC One M9. ... moreHigher resolution on same level of tech across all aspects means better images.
vrvly, 22 Oct 2017BTW 808 brought 2x zoom in which stills were better than ones on note8's tele with ois. I woul... moreThe zoom itself was not better. It just had so much resolution to work with that it worked out so well. The Note 8's with newer tech and OIS definitely holds it's advantages.
Stan, 23 Oct 2017It's not the MP, it's the sensor size. The best phones today with 12 mp pixel count, have the ... moreNo they do not the biggest sensors...
The biggest currently used is imx300. Inside Sony XA1 family. The same of Z5. It is 1/2.3", diagonal 7.87mm and 1.12 micron.
The imx220 inside Z1/Z2/Z3/Z4 is also 1/2.3" ( 7.87mm) but pixels are 1.2 micron.
Imx400 is 1/2.3" but diagonal 7.73mm, 1.22 micron.
Sensor inside Pixel 2016 has 7.81mm diagonal, also considered 1/2.3". Pixels are 1.5 micron
Those 12MP with 1.4 micron are 1/2.5" ( S7, S8, Moto G5, Zenfone 3 Zoom.)
U11 uses a 1/2.55"
Pixel 2 has a 1/2.6"
Not sure if iphone 8 uses a 1/2.8" or 1/2.6"
LG G6 has a 1/3.06" , same specs of the sensor used as front cam by Sony M5, X, XZ
Jimbob, 22 Oct 201712mp seems to be the sweet spotIt's not the MP, it's the sensor size. The best phones today with 12 mp pixel count, have the largest phone sensors on the market.
Sony Fanboy Bitches, 22 Oct 2017"Megapixels aren't everything" but they still mean a lot.
Now with these lower 12mp resolutio... moreThe extra pixels between 12mp and 20mp are not as much as you'd think, cause it's all in your head. For viewing on a regular monitor, 2mp is enough (1080p).
Here's some math for you to show exactly what i mean:
20mp at 2x digital zoom = 2x vert by 2x horiz = 4x = 5mp cropped image
12mp at 2x digital zoom = 2x vert by 2x horiz = 4x = 3mp cropped image
A 3x digital zoom would result in a 2.2mp and 1.3mp respectively.
The problem with a professional look is not a megapixel count, it's the user pushing the shutter button. First digital cameras were 1mp....
Hoffmann, 22 Oct 2017Living proof that higher resolution doesn't neccesarily mean better camera is the HTC One M9. ... moreThe M7 and M8 had just as terrible 4mp camera. The problem with HTC was not the megapixel count, but rather a poorly executed idea as far as firmware is concened.
Sony Fanboy Bitches, 22 Oct 2017"Megapixels aren't everything" but they still mean a lot.
Now with these lower 12mp resolutio... moreFor enthusiasts like us yes all of that is true but the majority of us wouldnt like a thick device especiolly something like a mobile since we drag it around everywhere
The re just isnt enough of us to make any brand take that risk....its just not profitable they wouldnt even get what they invested in the project in the first place
Thats how things are THESE days
I really hope things get better dho but for now it seems we are limited to the likes of a pixel or iphone/note 8 v30 and u11
In which case all are excellent but nothing ground braking like the pureview back in the day
12mp seems to be the sweet spot
Sony Fanboy Bitches, 22 Oct 2017"Megapixels aren't everything" but they still mean a lot. Now with these lower 12mp resolutio... morehttps://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-working-sensors-built-lens-layer/
"Megapixels aren't everything" but they still mean a lot.
Now with these lower 12mp resolutions, photos can no longer be edited like a pro, and zoom in detail shows the sign of how low is this resolution.
20mp can still be a fantastic low light shooter if the sensor is larger than 1/2", aperture of f1.8 or wider, presence of OIS, and good software to pair it with.
If only manufacturers are open-minded enough to sacrifice the thinness of the phones for larger sensors and possibly larger batteries, too.
We don't need paper thin devices. We need bold devices that will prove to us that we are indeed in the 21st century.
Can we see this plotted vs average screen resolution.