FinnishInquisition, 02 Nov 2017The 3.5 mm port hasn't been on mobile devices for a decade though. And even when it started ex... moreIn 2007, I had Nokia N91 with 3.5mm jack (with mic & audio button jack too), so its been a decade. What a phone it was, what solid audio!
Anyhow, old memories aside, you're right about not every device being cutting edge in audio quality.... That's a very strong point.
I guess if we are going to see a shift, it will have to be gradual, over a period of few years.
Because right now, most users' concern (including mine, I admit) is not quality or reliability or anything else. Instead it is, what we will do about our existing headphones and earphones.
How will we maintain an adaptor all the time, in our pockets/ college bags, etc?
Let's see... As of now, I have about 11 earphones and headphones, all of 3.5mm jack.
Samarth N8 808 user, 02 Nov 2017Same argument? Well buddy, we've lived with 3.5mm jack since a decade now, so the next generat... moreThe 3.5 mm port hasn't been on mobile devices for a decade though. And even when it started existing on devices more and more frequently in the shape of TRRS, there wasn't a decided standard to use for it. That's why your microphone or buttons won't always work.
Standards come and go. It may be that the 3.5 mm will see continued use for decades to come on stationary devices, but I don't see it as sticking around on mobile devices.
The USB-C headphones aren't notably bulkier than 3.5 mm alternatives, nor are they inconsistent. I will however agree that they will get more expensive - at least the higher quality ones that include a more lavish DAC/amp.
As for why the DAC should be in the headphone? Well, manufacturers don't usually include any decent DAC/amp in their devices, whether they be computers, smartphones or portable music players. At least now we'll get to decide how good we want our sound to be, instead of manufacturers cheaping out on us. I haven't had a single computer/laptop that hasn't had atrocious sound output, and only one smartphone where I liked the included DAC/amp. With USB-C headphones that'll be a thing of the past.
While I like your solution to the 3.5 mm conundrum (I think Microsoft designed something similar? I can't remember the schematics.), I think it's easier and more durable to simply use 3.5 mm adapters for the few times we need to connect 3.5 mm devices to our phones.
Sometime in the future we'll also wave goodbye to the USB-port on mobile devices. Maybe then we'll see a solution similar to yours or Apples magnetic charger for power and data transfer?
Anonymous, 02 Nov 2017You're one of the most obsessed fanboys here who keep talking nonsense. There is no valid reas... moreInsulting me doesn't really do much to argue for your case. I'm tired of misinformation on this site and others, so I'm merely setting people like you straight.
As I said, there are tons of valid reasons to remove the 3.5 mm port, including internal and external design and layout reasons, ensuring easier, cheaper or more reliable waterproofing, freeing up space, etc.
As for connector life cycles?
USB-C "Durability: 10,000 cycles"
3.5 mm "Life: 5,000 insertion / withdrawal cycles, minimum"
Im just glad that Oneplus decided to keep the headphone jack. For me it is essential.
FinnishInquisition, 02 Nov 2017With the same argument, it would also be better to have a 6.3 mm port, a full USB-A port and a... moreSame argument? Well buddy, we've lived with 3.5mm jack since a decade now, so the next generation will miss it, like we aready miss expandable storage, removable battery, etc.
The next generation will not miss a USB A, a 6.3mm jack or a cigarette lighter, because we never had it... There's a difference.
Absense of 3.5mm jack will save internal space, totally agreed, but we will end up using more expensive, bulky and non-consistent head/ear phones. And that is not ok.
Why pay for DAC in every earphone purchase, when a good one can be inside the phone itself?
Although, I admit this "USB Adaptor" is a great idea for existing phones, whose inbuilt DAC gives poor audio output, like Redmi Note 1.
Also, I have a design idea for 3.5mm jack.
To save space, the phone must have 4 open (visible) metal terminals (for 3.5mm) on the top left (or right) side of the phone's body. No more hole for 3.5mm.
Then, the earphone jack should "stick" to the phone's side with a rubber holder (like a c*ndom), and this will also help with water proofing the phone.
Imagine how much space this design will save while retaining most benefits...
APPLESHEEP, 01 Nov 2017stealing data is what they have in commonexacly what i was thinking lol
FinnishInquisition, 02 Nov 2017Oh for goodness sake...
The S7 got the water resistance back. It also got 1.1 mm thicker an... more"the USB-C port is rated for 10 000 cycles, the 3.5 mm port is only rated for 5000 cycles"
Citation needed. Otherwise it's another invalid statement.
FinnishInquisition, 02 Nov 2017With the same argument, it would also be better to have a 6.3 mm port, a full USB-A port and a... moreYou're one of the most obsessed fanboys here who keep talking nonsense. There is no valid reason to remove 3.5mm jack. All phones without 3.5mm jack are rubbish and not worth buying.
Samarth N8 808 user, 02 Nov 2017Having a 3.5mm jack is better, because you STILL GET ALL CHOICES:- jack, bluetooth and USB.
T... moreWith the same argument, it would also be better to have a 6.3 mm port, a full USB-A port and an optical audio port to give all the choices.
The reason for its removal are many-fold, but include space-saving, easier and more reliable waterproofing, and simplified internal and external designs and layouts. You don't get those advantages by still having the 3.5 mm port included.
Having the DAC/amp inside the phone doesn't necessarily make sense. A lot of phone manufacturers never include a quality DAC/amp and the consumer don't get to pick audio output quality as a result. With USB-C and Bluetooth solutions, they do.
Saying you get a more consistent quality over a variety of headphones when the DAC/amp is included makes very little sense. Not only would the quality be highly variable depending on what device you plug your headphones into, but the performance of the DAC/amp could vary a lot depending on the properties of the headphones.
Having the DAC/amp included in the headphones instead ensures you get the same quality regardless of what you plug them into. You don't have to worry about the sound degrading if you plug your $1000 headphones into a cheap low-end smartphone instead of your expensive Bang & Olufsen-branded laptop. Furthermore, the audio manufacturer can hand-pick and tune the DAC/amp to suit your chosen pair of headphones specifically with USB-C, whereas a smartphone DAC/amp may be poorly optimised for one pair of headphones and better for another pair.
The removal of the 3.5 mm port is probably a money grab by Apple. But the other manufacturers have no monetary gains to be made from removing it, so it's probably simply down to the engineering benefits.
ZiGiTy-Zo0giTy, 02 Nov 2017If typce c audio is so much better, than why don't we have standards across platforms, whether... moreWe do have a cross-platform USB-C standard. It was finalized in October 2016 - UAC3. Old flip phones usually don't have a USB-C port, as it didn't exist 3 years ago.
The USB-C has the advantage of already being on the smartphones, while still being able to perform all the functions of the 3.5 mm port. The 3.5 mm port is essentially a redundant port that takes up a lot of space and limits designs and layouts.
R31ya, 02 Nov 2017First thing first, 3.5mm jack is powered and two way connection. There are passive speaker who... moreThe 3.5 mm port is NOT regarded as a powered connection. Transferring an analogue signal is not the same as "transferring power".
The functions are largely passive, and if you try to engineer your way around it, the most you can get are a few milliwatts. Not enough to run anything meaningful.
It's also not a "two way connection" by default, it all depends on if you have a TRS or TRRS connection (that's right, there's no unified 3.5 mm standard). And the "two way connection" is extremely limited in what it can do.
Apple didn't mention you could get better functions and improved audio via a digital connection, because that'd be admitting they put sub-par DAC/amps in their phones from the start. That'd be like saying "Finally you don't have to endure the crap we try to sell you!". Not to mention Apple make a ton of money on removing the 3.5 mm port, unlike all the manufacturers that use USB-C.
And yes, you could buy a phone with a good included DAC/amp and 3.5 mm port. Nobody is stopping you. The number of phones with properly good DAC/amps are rare though, so moving that choice to the audio demands of individual consumers makes sense. You get a good external DAC and/or headphones included anyway, so the manufacturer doesn't save any money on it.
And no, smartphone manufacturers don't make any extra money on the removal. They merely simplify and streamline the design, at a time when more and more people use Bluetooth solutions. Perhaps Samsung would make money seeing as they own the Harman audio brand, but even so USB-C is a free and open standard. It's not bound by intellectual property licensing, like the Apple Lightning connector.
Kiyasariin, 02 Nov 2017That'd be an impossible question. plus. I've used bluetooth headsets. I seriously hate when th... moreThe earmuffs rip off..? What? If anything, it's wired headphones that cause cable-tugging and further annoyance (such as having the headphone ripped off), not to mention microphonics.
You can buy Bluetooth headphones in either the over-ear, on-ear or in-ear variety. They're all really good nowadays.
Anonymous, 02 Nov 2017Did s7 lose its IP rating? There are phones with IP rating and 3.5 mm jack And for many people... moreOh for goodness sake...
The S7 got the water resistance back. It also got 1.1 mm thicker and more expensive. Waterproofing adds cost and thickness to the phone, as verified by engineers. It also gets less reliable the more ingress points you have. If you want to keep that cost down and reliability up while also impacting the thickness less, removing the 3.5 mm port is a good start.
Also, the USB-C port is rated for 10 000 cycles, the 3.5 mm port is only rated for 5000 cycles. You can't wear it down within the lifetime of a device.
And eventually we may see the removal of the USB-C port as well, but that's years or decades away, as wireless charging and data transfer just isn't on par yet.
3.5mm jack supports FM Radio. Any 3.5mm cable/plug enables the FM Radio, not only the headphones.
The bluetooth heatphones have own battery which means you have to bother with recharging them. This also means they have limited lifespan, because batteries deteriorate over time.
If there is no 3.5mm jack, you can't listen to music and charge the phone at the same time.
3.5mm jack is universal. This means that all audio devices out there support 3.5mm connection. This means if you go anywhere, you can connect the speakers, loudspeaker, TV, PC, car audio system ... to your phone with 3.5mm. If the audio device has only an input jack (female connector), then you can use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm jack cable (both ends have male connector) with your phone.
The old phones like Samsung Omnia II, Galaxy S, Nokia N8 also can output analog video (analog TV out) through the 3.5mm jack using an A/V cable (3.5 to red yellow white cable).
Ben Turbin, 02 Nov 2017that is what I am doing sticking with older phones with headphone jack. Sick to death of ap... moreThis is the capitalism and planned obsolescence. Artificially creating problems then solutions for them so they can keep selling.
ZiGiTy-Zo0giTy, 02 Nov 2017If typce c audio is so much better, than why don't we have standards across platforms, whether... moreAll manufactures were using their own proprietary connector before the GSM consortium(or something similar) made 3.5mm jack mandatory(or something like that)
Having a 3.5mm jack is better, because you STILL GET ALL CHOICES:- jack, bluetooth and USB.
To each his own. Simple.
And of course, it makes total sense to have 3.5mm jack because this shifts DAC towards inside the phone, thus basic quality is more constant over a variety of earphones and headphones, Pure Logic.
Industry however wants expensive headphones and earphones, so it makes sense for them to skip 3.5mm jack. Customers beware!!!
FinnishInquisition, 01 Nov 2017The 3.5 mm port is replaced with the USB-C port. Get over it guys. This is starting to sound m... moreIf typce c audio is so much better, than why don't we have standards across platforms, whether you use a old flipphone or a 2017 macbook? What makes type c better than an over 60 year port still being supported by top tier audio equipment manufactures? I would like to use typce c as the standard for all ports one day, but the 3.5mm not only has the support from devices it's "competitors" are not up to snuff.