Kangal, 28 Dec 2017The first guy wasn't saying cache was pointless, he was trying to ask a question but forgot to... moreWell I provided answers with or without question mark.
I don't think you are aware how things are regarding code or apps for that matter.
Lo lv apis are bullshit fancy names for a slow & dreadful code. No one doesn't do machine language optimisations anymore & you will never get more naked bare bone than that. The main high symbolic language used on Android is Java & as it is it's around 2x slower than C. So called native libs are precompiled binary blobs of things mostly written in C up to date (regardless of platform). The compiler used regarding Android (al do things aren't any better for iOS and VLLM) along with optimization's is far behind last versions & not optimized for the current nor future core's. So software is far behind & it will stay like that.
The system cache is victim cache which is L3 cache & it's highly unlikely their is more than one & only.
Deep learning is just pore advertising. QDSP v865 is just minor upgrade & still miles behind from competition (Tensilica and CEVA), for vector multiplication LUTS are used & SIMD can help a lot but generally modern DSP's reduce their mem neads using extremely long words not RAM directly. The DinamIQ is one cluster not two of them so patch is shorter & so is the time needed to migrate tasks from one type of cores to another (on old BIG.LITTLE it takes from 60 to 90 ms while on DIQ it's down to about 35 ideally). Most things will use two big cores & two to four smaller one's as most of the things are SMP2 for a long wile on both mobile platforms.
The lithography improvement (aka 10 nm FF+) is much needed for new A75's as they have power neads as older A72 (which whose also 3 instructions per clock wide architecture) & 50% up compared to A73 (which is same as A75 but two instructions wide). In the real usage as most of the code won't be able to use the third instruction always performance gain will be only around 20%, so make that 25~30% with a cache. But hire is a thing on older SoC's with A72's - 73's that contained quad big cluster it whose also possible to adjust typology so that two used core's have all L2 cache available & exclusive access to it so the new separate L2 per core policy ain't exactly a smartest move.
Thesis86, 28 Dec 2017This should not have turned into a conversation about Apple's A11 vs Qualcomm. Apple is 2 gene... moreI'd guess Moto G6 to have the SD450 and the G6+ the 630, while Z3 Play with 640.
Anonymous, 28 Dec 2017It is funny how optimistic people Are... do you remember what wa expected From last moto G... ... more660 from the Moto G5 Plus? Qualcomm hadn't even released it yet. And it would have made no sense to throw a 653 in there b/c of the process. The Z2 Play should have waited for the 660, but it didn't. So they made a mistake there. But I don't think these chips will be under-used this time. Shit, the Moto E might use some shit like the 630 and then we progress from there.
Thesis86, 28 Dec 2017This should not have turned into a conversation about Apple's A11 vs Qualcomm. Apple is 2 gene... moreIt is funny how optimistic people Are... do you remember what wa expected From last moto G... 660... what we get... something much, much weaker and so on...
Lets see what was the most Â”popularÂ” soc this year... 625...
I am expecting that most midd range phones have eight small cores Also in this year. 626? Or if we Are really lucky we will get new soc with 8 A55 cores... but I Expect that most middle range phones use 450 or 460 or something with 8 A53 cores in the next year.
Why... Eight cores Sounds a lot. And those small cores Are dirty cheap compared to A73 and A75. Maybe A72 will become cheaper?
All in all, donÂ’t get your hopes too high!
Anonymous, 28 Dec 2017Â„Come on boys,just kill the 4 series,it's bloody awful rubbish,which ever version it is.
Dro... moreTry it then.
Then come and tell the rest of us what you found..
Of what ?
I hate Google/andriod as much as I loathe crapple..
Don't tell me,your another 20 year time served silicone engineer that has worked for both Google and crapple and know the inside of their systems backwards !!
I don't need some third rate hack to tell me a device has a large chunk of silicone in it,I have a perfectly good pair of eyes,and you would be horrified at the amount of crapples hardware I have gutted and hacked apart over the years,plenty of it to be found in skips if you know where to look..
Anonymous, 28 Dec 2017It will Sound strange to you because that is the only argument to defend your phone compared t... moreDude I'm not defending and here we are talking about processors not phones.
Your wrong android is much much heavier because in every Android device you see, you'll see a collaboration between 3 companies, Google: which is responsible from the Android, the OEM: which is any company and put their home UI meaning changing the Android for their customary Android and the processor: which is handled by Qualcomm. When it comes to Apple, they're their own OEM and make their own OS which makes the OS more optimised.
So that's why the Android are heavy and becoming year by year more flexible which means every time they beat the iphones, their software and processors every year and whatever the iteration was.
Anonymous, 28 Dec 2017Â„Come on boys,just kill the 4 series,it's bloody awful rubbish,which ever version it is.
Dro... moreThere will be 200 series for low end...
460 is middle range
640 upper middle range
845 upper highend...
So there Are / will be soc below 400 series and it will be used a lot.
ZolaIII, 28 Dec 2017You won't feel any difference between 1 MB of L2 cache & 3 MB of it as it will translate o... moreThe first guy wasn't saying cache was pointless, he was trying to ask a question but forgot to put the question mark. The second guy responded kind of dogmatically.
The point is cache is useful but extremely expensive.
However, its most useful when the system is optimised for it (low-level drivers, APIs, then the OS and Apps). I believe the new Snapdragon's aren't going to be much faster than the current ones straight off-the-bat. However, give it a year, and the low-level and OS stuff will be much better optimised in the new handsets (and possibly updates). The App stuff would take a long time to adapt, even Apple has trouble here, but it's fine.
And remember the flagship QSD 845 has L1,L2,L3 CPU Cache... but it also has another "System Cache" (3MB) which talks instructions from the CPU to the GPU or the Deep Learning stuff. It's especially useful for things like vector maths, floating point calculations, and emulation (from a practical sense).
However the QSD 670, 640, and 460 omit this extra System Cache from the SoC. But all four SoC's seem to have ARM's DynamIQ technology, which succeeds their older LITTLE.big computing. Now, most systems will probably use 1x Cortex A75 for the demanding thread, whilst the 4x Cortex A55's will clock up and run the OS, Background tasks, and another thread from the App. This should keep the device running just fast-enough where you need it, without having to shift the threads from the efficiency to the performance cluster. That way, it should massively keep heat down (very very important) and also slightly reduce battery drain (also important).
From a real-world perspective, it really depends on the overall product and its design.
However, the faster single-core performance of the A75 and DynamIQ has the potential to raise top-end performance, whilst making the mid-level demands much more pocket-friendly. The slight improvements in the Cortex A55 and the 10nm+ manufacturing also aid a little. So its going to be a little hard to gauge how the 2018 models compare to the 2017 models, much harder than it was to compare the 2017 to the 2016 models. There was no need for comparison between the 2016 to the 2015, as 2015 was the bust year for Qualcomm with their bad lithography base and unoptimised microarchitecture choices.
The Snapdragon 6 series sounds quite promising. Love those midrangers.
The 460 still seems pretty nice too.
Travis333, 28 Dec 2017Come on boys,just kill the 4 series,it's bloody awful rubbish,which ever version it is.
Drop ... moreÂ„Come on boys,just kill the 4 series,it's bloody awful rubbish,which ever version it is.
Drop 4,do a 5 series,a tiny bit more pricÂ“
This is right. A 5 Series with 1 A75 and 10nm would be great
The rest of your comment is shit. It was said that the thing is huge, thatÂ‘s right, but you just copied that and added your fanboy stuff. As I said before, slap an Android AOSP on it and see the magic. A11 and SD845 are not that different in their instructions, I mean they both are ARM.
Come on boys,just kill the 4 series,it's bloody awful rubbish,which ever version it is.
Drop 4,do a 5 series,a tiny bit more pricey,but without the cost bodges jammed into the 4.
Crapples custom silicone is good at working crapple code, rubbish at anything else,it's a piece of silicone with an instruction set,it can be forced to run anything,try it and see,it works well because it's huge,has lots of cache and is massively optimimised/compromised to run crapple code well,to get it to run android properly or well,you would need to do lots of work,and guess what,if you did bother,you would need a bloody huge power pack on you all day !!
Anonymous, 28 Dec 2017I believe 460 must be on pair with 630. 640 same level of 653. 670 almost like 820The 660 was on the same level as the 820 per AnTuTu, but it crushed the 820's Geekbench 4.1 scores. The 670 is gonna be faster so it may come close to the 835.
This should not have turned into a conversation about Apple's A11 vs Qualcomm. Apple is 2 generations ahead and uses far more silicon than Qualcomm and has more cache. That is why Apple is faster. End of story.
As far as Qualcomm, they're confusing. Very few devices worldwide used the Snapdragon 660, but the 670 is out and is now 10nm. More upper midrangers (Oppo's successor to the R11s, the Moto Z3 Play) will most likely use the 670. I could see standard mid range devices using the 640 (like Xiaomi's devices, and Moto's G6+). So for those who don't want to buy thousand dollar flagships, there will be options for us to get serious performance for the money. It is up to the OEMs to make this great.
It looks like that next year will be great year to buy middle and budget phone. Currently phone market is polarized to highend and low-end: flagship models with SD835 AP and over $600 price tag for the rich or cheap models with SD425 AP and below $150 price for he poor. There are not many mid-range phones that have both decent performance AND good value. SD625 is bare minimum to be acceptable. Introducing decent mid-range AP like SD670/SD640 and good budget AP like SD460 will improve value-for-money attractiveness of new middle and budget phones of 2018. I hope to see many new phones next year that uses these mid-range AP's.
Luxor, 28 Dec 2017Kryos is the one we usually see on flagship chipset. No. Kryo is just a Bit customized Version of A53, A55, A73, A75
KamAbdi, 28 Dec 2017I agree with you with what you said but looking at kinda of power, a OS like iOS doesn't need ... moreIt will Sound strange to you because that is the only argument to defend your phone compared to an iPhone, but iOS is actually heavier, believe it or not. iOS became heavier and more feature loaded over the years. Android actually became lighter (keyword: project svelte). Since more than a year, a stock android ROM is lighter than iOS, and the difference is becoming bigger every year. The iPhone 5s and 6, some of the most powerful and glorious phones of past years, started to struggle with iOS 10, and it got even worse with iOS 11 (IÂ‘m NOT referring to the slow down of old batteries, but the OS in general). If those phone ran an AOSP, they would be blazing fast, while with iOS 11, they have a hard time to keep up. Even the iPhone 5 would crush through Android 8.0 AOSP, and the iPhone 4 was not unusable today if it used stock Android.