Anonymous, 09 Jun 2018Yes, Intel 10nm is only slightly worse compared to TSMC 7nm LPE. Do my understanding the mass ... moreNo "Anonymous"... you're wrong this time.
There used to be a big quality difference because Intel used to measure their wafers conservatively (or I should say factually) whereas GlobalFoundries and TSMC used to play tricks with their measurements and numbers. Samsung does this too, but at a much smaller scale to the other two.
Case in point: TSMC's initial 16nm wafer were much worse than Intel's 14nm+ wafer, which itself was slightly worse than Samsung's 10nm LPE lithography. Yet Intel's 14nm++ lithography is on-par with Samsung's 10nm LPE. And as we diverge smaller and smaller, the differences become smaller between the lithography's aswell.
In this instance, TSMC's 7nm is equivalent to Samsung's 7nm wafers. Yet, TSMC is going to beat Samsung to the punch by 6 months (which is a big deal). Whereas Intel is having trouble making ANY 10nm wafers currently. And Intel's 10nm wafers are slightly better than Samsung's 10nm LPP wafers... but they're still behind the new 7nm generation. So Intel is roughly 1 year behind Samsung, which itself is 6 months behind TSMC. You can round that figure and say Intel is 2 YEARS BEHIND THE COMPETITION. And the worst part is, that timescale CAN get longer.
Not even Intel's superior IPC in their Core i7's can make up for that difference. When Zen2 (aka Ryzen 3000-series) is shipping in Mid-2019, the "Ryzen 3600" 6c/12t is going to surpass the 8700k.... whereas their flagship "Ryzen 3800X" 8c/16t is going to demolish them. Did you not see the snake-oil salesman tactic Intel pulled in the past couple days at Computex 2018 by pretending they have 5GHz CPUs coming mainstream, and even a 28 core one. Thanks to Jim Keller and AMD, we finally have progress, and a reason for people with 2500k to upgrade soon.
Let's not forget AMD, they are a big driver behind 7nm - beating intel.
Kangal, 08 Jun 2018And about a decade ago people were making fun of TSMC for opening their new factory, saying it... moreNonsense, all the new gpus and other stuff is still coming in few month time, manufacturing process here does not play any part, cause you can launch easely new chips with 12 or 10nm and still be way more efficient than 10 series Nividia which runs on 16nm
Anonymous, 08 Jun 2018Intel is behind but not by as much as it seems. Their 10 nm is comparable to rival fabs' 7 nm.Yes, Intel 10nm is only slightly worse compared to TSMC 7nm LPE. Do my understanding the mass production will be done on 10+nm and we don't know details on improvement rate. If you look at Intel 14nm (1st gen) and 14++nm (3rd gen) there were massive improvements. And 14++nm (3rd gen) are better than 10nm (1st gen) according Intel slides regarding performance.
One thing is known for sure, i.e. Intel finally losing process lead, but it does not mean that they will not be competitive
Also remember that "14", "14++", "10", "7", etc. are now branding and nothing more. You need to know a lot more parameters/metrics to compare them.
--VM--, 08 Jun 2018Samsung is first in patent anD Last in produce Where is indisplay fingerprint scanner . S... moreSamsung clearly said that they aren't focused on being first anymore. They only want to focus on the user experience. Plus, they wanna reserve all the cool tech for the S10
Anonymous, 08 Jun 2018Intel is not behind. The others are just about to finally catch up. Mind you 7nm, 10nm, 12nm .... morelol everyone knew AnnanTech was Intel bitch and Isheep loserpants ,
Could you then tell me why my 10nm phone is colder and last longer then previos 14nm phone even though has smaller battery ?? .
Kangal, 08 Jun 2018And about a decade ago people were making fun of TSMC for opening their new factory, saying it... moreWe already got Vega 20 on 7nm for data center and machine learning showcased on Computex a few days back. Consumer grade products will be released in mid 2019
Kangal, 08 Jun 2018And about a decade ago people were making fun of TSMC for opening their new factory, saying it... moreA decade ago it was true.
Intel was far away and on schedule. If they had not ruined everything, we'll be talking about EUV or beyond that.
Nah. Intel already behind. TSMC and GF already start mass production of 7nm and by the look of it their yield also pretty high while Intel still can't figure out 10nm and their yield also still pretty bad by the look of it. The 10nm that got into some laptop this year are also pretty bad, more power hungry, and slower than their old 14nm++.
After so many delays and many billions burned with 10nm they might finally ready to ship 10nm after this a year or two. But by then everyone probably already leave Intel in the dust. AMD Zen+ clock for clock IPC is only just ~3% behind Intel Coffee Lake. AMD will sampling their Zen 2 7nm chips in the end of this year and start selling Zen 2 in 1H 2019. Zen 2 will surely got IPC and core count higher than Intel's and if Zen 2 can reach 5GHz Intel will no longer have any advantage left. Apple also planned to stop using Intel chip and use their own chip in the near future.
Before this Intel was at the top and have at least 3 years lead in tech. When Intel hired the 3rd party contractor to check the tech from the others like TSMC and GF. When the contractor show them the results that everyone already very close to Intel but Intel refuse to acknowledge the fact. They think no one can catch up to them, only them can be number one, they became lazy and extremely arrogant. That's why Intel found themselves in the hole right now.
Qualcomm @ Samsung, 08 Jun 2018It was published that Qualcomm would fab 7nm with EUV at Samsung and not TSMC.
Samsung is first in patent anD
Last in produce
Where is indisplay fingerprint scanner .
Samsung lazy developer .
Bm, 08 Jun 2018And yet many companies are still using 28 nm chips and charging way to much for their devices...Most of nokia s use 28nm #@$$#@&#@#
Intel is not behind. The others are just about to finally catch up. Mind you 7nm, 10nm, 12nm ... mean very little in comparison of different semiconductor foundries. These metrics have been turned into marketing.
The metric that actually matters is transistor density per mm^2. There was an Anandtech article that gave a good comparison but I can't find it. Here is a reddit post by somebody that gives a good summary and links to other articles. Find it in google. The topic is "TSMC, Samsung, and GlobalFoundries have overtaken Intel at process foundry"
It was published that Qualcomm would fab 7nm with EUV at Samsung and not TSMC.
Kangal, 08 Jun 2018And about a decade ago people were making fun of TSMC for opening their new factory, saying it... moreIntel is behind but not by as much as it seems. Their 10 nm is comparable to rival fabs' 7 nm.
Kangal, 08 Jun 2018And about a decade ago people were making fun of TSMC for opening their new factory, saying it... morePeople will avoid those second hand GPUs that have been fried due to mining. At least, people with enough knowledge. It's a risk buy one and lose the money in weeks or days and end with a dead card.
And about a decade ago people were making fun of TSMC for opening their new factory, saying it was pointless as they were going to get slaughtered in the market by Intel anyway.
...now Intel's stuck on 14nm++, with no hope of going to 7nm until maybe two-years after the competition. TSMC will have exclusive market for 7nm, Samsung to follow months later.
Sadly this means we won't get any new GTX 1180 and AMD Navi soon. The market is prioritising ARM SoC production first, and memory production secondly. Good news for Cortex A76 SoCs, perhaps it might be powerful enough to emulate the Switch on our phones. Although AMD's Ryzen2 products will come out early, GPU market has stalled due to crypto-market shorting the supply. It might be very damaging to AMD when decent cards like GTX 1070/RX 580 that were used for mining flood the Used/Second-Hand Market.
Uncertain times to follow indeed....
Bm, 08 Jun 2018And yet many companies are still using 28 nm chips and charging way to much for their devices...So true. My Y7 Prime is powered by SD435 28nm chipset!