yeah they also have Google's ML (machine learning) kit in Helio P90 as well
Unfortunately it is back 3 generations from Exynos and SnapDragon in nm construct and 5 generations in video resolution.
Snapdragon and Exynos are built at 7nm & 8nm, while Mediatek at 12nm.
With Samsung processors you can shoot video 8k and up to 960 FPS while Mediatek 2500 x1080 at 30FPS
Google Lens and AR Support is awesome as most people have started to get aware of this technology and would like some exposure without spending much effort and money. Mediatek has done a good job with it!
P90 has some excellent specifications and features which can support a device and make it fast and smart.
Anonymous, 14 Dec 2018675 is based on 11nm process... 16nm from TSMC is better than 14nm from Samsung (or comparais... moreAnd I forgot that 675 is based on 11nm process. Sorry, my bad! But the 11nm is not that far from both 12nm and 10nm though
six_tymes, 17 Dec 2018What phones will use the A76's?Mate 20 with Kirin 980...2+2 A76 (with different frequencies) & 4 A55
Future devices with Snapdragon 855 (Kryo 4xx will probably be mostly A76+A55 design) 1+3 & 4
Future devices with Snapdragon 675 2 & 6
Kangal, 16 Dec 2018So you revealed your true colours.
Someone who picks sides with his favourite company, but ca... moreStill no argument! As usual!
Accuse the others of your own behavior!
Anonymous, 16 Dec 2018Not credible?
Why? Because it's Mediatek?
Give something that let you think it's not credi... moreSo you revealed your true colours.
Someone who picks sides with his favourite company, but can't look at things at a technical angle and objectively.
Qualcomm is not a "Good" company. However, MediaTek are worse, because they fail to actually invest R&D and invent their own solutions... they license and literally steal IP. Then have the nerve to profit over the misdeeds. And to break GPL law and ask (millions) to provide a Free source code. And just because they are cheap, does not give them a Free Pass on any of this. If I robbed a bank, but split half my earnings with a charity, that doesn't justify my actions.
So yeah, I have my reasons to be skeptical about ANYTHING they say. That doesn't mean that I don't hold out hope for them.
And you keep going back to circular logic. Stop spreading FUD it makes everything worse. Your sources are NOT credible, and that is a FACT. Now listen carefully if English isn't your strong suit, because that doesn't necessarily mean you were wrong. It simply means you are likely to be wrong. There's even a (small) chance that this SoC is much better than you give credit for.
However, you should not think in a privileged reference frame....just listen to the rumours, make your own inference, then WAIT to see the product in a real device (not prototype) in the real-world (not cherry-picked reviewers). And maybe even wait for benchmarks from trusted testers (eg Gary Sims from Android Authority).
And if all that fails, buy the device yourself and test it yourself, and prove to yourself that it is as good as you say it should be.
SoC Guy, 16 Dec 2018The Kirin 710 uses a first gen bifrost GPU core, the G51, which is the only one in the family ... moreG51 uses 2 engines, when G71 or G72 uses 3.
Kirin 710 uses G51mp4...
G51mp4 uses 8 engines (agree it's Adreno 509 level)
G72mp3 uses 9 newer engines
On new G76, engines are twice bigger...
Sadly, last CPU increase benchmark's perfs without real optimisations, they only increase Instructions Per Cycle.
Instead of treating instructions in parallele on multiple cores, they treat instructions in the same core...
But the problem is still there : you can't treat all the instructions in parallele...and when you can on a single core, you can on two.
A75/A76 are like that...
What they bring is Armv8.1
...and coherent cache of DynamiQ.
Would like to see a A74, with DynamiQ and Armv8.1 support and only 2 IPC.
It will score worst but will be cheaper, consume less energy and work as well
Compare to A72, A73 increased (mostly) performances when decreasing Instruction Per Cycle...that was real optimisation, with real effect.
In my opinion, 4A73+4A53 is still competitive
Kangal, 16 Dec 2018Nope, not credible. Nice try though.
I didn't give you any conclusions, just preliminary idea... moreNot credible?
Why? Because it's Mediatek?
Give something that let you think it's not credible? You won't.
SD678 probably won't beat SD710 in GPU...
It's uncoherent with the names.
it might be a 675 with a heavier GPU, higher clocked CPU, maybe Adreno 615 instead of 612.
SD710 uses Adreno 616.
About radio, OEM often doesn't use it at full speed...
Well, you buy a SD636 with 4G category 12...but is your device able to...not necessarly! Proofs :
On Nokia 6.1 Plus, antennas allows category 4 (source : Nokia's official website).
Nokia 7.1 allows category 6 (source : Nokia's official website).
Even Nokia 8.1 with Snapdragon 710 allows...category 6! (source : Nokia's official website).
And Nokia is honnest and officially said it. How many does without saying it?
I find some rare posts on xda that suspect the same about Xiaomi's devices. But most people don't notice anything!
Medias are funny, they promotes the superiority of Qualcomm 4G, and when they test Nokia's, I find no one of them noticed that 4G perfs are divided by 4!!!! (Note : Cat 12 - 600Mb/s, Cat 4 - 150Mb/s).
Customers follows Medias that even aren't able to read official specs!
Mediatek allows dual-volte before Qualcomm, even on a cheap 28nm entry-level (mt6739)
Mediatek has modern antenna switching technologie (TAS 2.0)
Even OEM has forejudgments...
Look at Nokia...they downclock the P60 of their 5.1 Plus (by 10% on CPU, and according to benchmarks, I think by 20% on GPU), because without that, it kills the SD636 of their higher devices (6.1 Plus and 7.1)
Very sad market!
- Trolled by most medias (in France, the 2 bigger Android websites even didn't make any article about any of the latest Mediatek's soc officially launched - A22, P22, P60, P70, P90...but talk about all the Little rumors about Qualcomm, Apple, Samsung or Huawei).
- Trolled by customers that don't know anything else but Qualcomm or Samsung.
- Destroyed by unfair commercial behavior.
Anonymous, 16 Dec 2018It seems to beat Sd710 in CPU
Explode it in AI.
And be close to it for GPU.
I give you some... moreNope, not credible. Nice try though.
I didn't give you any conclusions, just preliminary ideas. And OEMs pricing their devices is out of the control of SoC provider, so your point is fallacious.
And you're right, the average user doesn't need the cutting-edge chipset. Though if I had to make a recommendation, it would be to get the QSD 636 instead. You're getting better support, better radios, and even open-source/community support.
If you want something a little better, I say skip the 660, 670, 710 and go for the upper midrange QSD 678/750. Treat the others as an improved QSD 636.
And if you want even better, skip the likes of the QSD 835, 845, and head straight for the QSD 855 the best of the best. Treat the others as an improved QSD 678/750.
I think you can agree with me on this one, MediaTek and HiSilicon need to step up their game. They need to be more competitive. Otherwise Qualcomm will get complacent, then we all lose.
Kangal, 16 Dec 2018Look buddy, I have no idea where you are pulling out these "data" from.
As far as I know, the... moreIt seems to beat Sd710 in CPU
Explode it in AI.
And be close to it for GPU.
I give you some number that show it...
You give me nothing...and conclure the opposite...Come on!
Come with number, and technical analysis, not with forejugement
AI perfs of SD710 aren't official.
You find here some AI tests on P80 (unofficial one) and SD855
Manhattan 3.0 comes from an announce for P90 and from gfxbench website for SD710
Kangal, 15 Dec 2018Yes, I know.
However, the Kirin 710 is a rival against the Snapdragon 710... but a bad match-... moreThe Kirin 710 uses a first gen bifrost GPU core, the G51, which is the only one in the family where MP = pixel shader count and not core count, the 710 apparently runs dual core G51, yet scores as high as a triple core second gen G72, how is that possible? Well they likely took some inspiration from the kirin 970, phones with 710s have terrible battery life in relation to their huge battery, and chipsets are all about GPU, I/O, modems and efficiency.
As I said before, the CPU bottlenecking is almost never happening at the higher midrange side, so ever more powerful CPUs haven't really been that useful compared to better GPUs and efficiency, and in that regard, the 710 fails to compete with the 636 imo, not to mention the prices of devices are similar.
The P90's GPU was said to hit 30fps on gfxbench's Manhattan, either 3 or 3.1(anantech didnt mention), if it's the former than it's 50% faster than the 660's GPU in that regard, if the former, than its over double as fast.
The appeal of the new mediateks is getting the premium midrange performance levels at much lower prices, with some compromises you wouldn't care too much about at that price point. aside from from xiaomi, 660 and 710 phones are quite pricey compared to helio p60 phones, the realme 1 and nokia x5 at around $130 price range while the Nokia 7+ is around 300+ now.
There's a lot of things qualcomm does better, faster modems, open sources, google camera ports etc, and I'll likely never get anything not Qualcomm, but for the average person a Helio P60 or 90 can very well be all he needs, running the usual games at high settings, not to mention, competition is always good for the consumer.
Anonymous, 15 Dec 2018First P90's geekbench scores are over SD710's
Singlecore's only 10% under SD675 despite A75 i... moreLook buddy, I have no idea where you are pulling out these "data" from.
As far as I know, there are no devices with the P90 or the QSD 675, so its impossible to know how well they actually operate.
I make deductions based on the official information provided.
So what I can see is that this thing is supposed to go head-to-head with the Kirin 710 and QSD 710. However, it seems to lose to the QSD 710 already, and is trading blows with the QSD 660 and Kirin 710. And that's without considering Qualcomm's new midrange chips, the soon to arrive QSD 675 and the rumoured even higher specced QSD 678 (codenamed SDM750).
And the Exynos conversation doesn't have any bearing on this topic, just put that aside. I already have a bad history with Samsung's silicon division, when they ignored mine and other people's bugfixes in 2011 and refused to provide sources to fix their kernel. Its why I refused to even touch/develop for the HiSilicon chipsets and the MediaTek chipsets, after they asked me money for a free kernel source. Qualcomm is "no angel" but they're at least doing what they're supposed to be doing at a minimum stage, which is why they win the developer community and the OEM's too (its easier to develop SkinnedOS to a chipset you have proper access to). The gold standard is TexasInstruments, their OMAP series was as open as possible, and made it super easy to understand and code for.
Not sure where you got that I compared Google to tiny brands from Shenzhen. That whole paragraph has not made sense to me. What was the point you tried to make?
Kangal, 15 Dec 2018Yes, I know.
However, the Kirin 710 is a rival against the Snapdragon 710... but a bad match-... moreFirst P90's geekbench scores are over SD710's
Singlecore's only 10% under SD675 despite A75 instead A76
Multicore's both over SD710 and 675
P90 : 2052/6589 (3 IPC)
SD710 : 1844/5935 (3 IPC)
SD675 : 2267/6103 (4 IPC)
In my opinion, P90 will run better than 675 (close singlecore's despite 1 less IPC)
GFXbench Manhattan 3.0
P90 : 30fps
SD710 : 33fps
SD675 : ? Probably less than SD710
P90 : 1127GMacs/s
SD710 : 614GMacs/s
About support, remember you compare companies like Google to tiny brands from Shenzhen...
Nokia will push mt6737 (entry level) on Nokia 3 to Android 9.0 when most tiny brands still run Android 6.0.
When Google hold Android One, they use entry level mt6582, they support it from Android 4.4 to Android 6.0.
Oh...high-end Exynos have heavy performances drop...all devices from S5 to S9 suffer
That's something normal...
But middle-range with throttling, that's rare!
Anonymous, 15 Dec 2018Kirin 710 isn't Snapdragon 710 competitor...it's only naming...
In fact, it's SD636/660 compe... moreYes, I know.
However, the Kirin 710 is a rival against the Snapdragon 710... but a bad match-up.
It's just a bit better than the QSD 636, but definitely a bit worse than the QSD 660.
Not to forget, Huawei and their HiSilicon department aren't friendly to developers.... definitely better than MediaTek, but not as good as Samsung (and they're bad), and a far cry from the likes of Qualcomm.
The Mali-G76 is a major upgrade over the Mali-G72.
You are correct, this comes with a size penalty... which means more silicon space used up.... which in turn means more money. However, its not as much as you might think....and this is money well spent.
Besides a Mali-G76-MP8 is not high-end, its midrange. Even the Kirin 980, which has Poor GPU Performance for a flagship has a MP10, so a proper flagship is expected to carry an MP14. Whilst the Exynos 9820 is rumoured to come with a Mali-G76-MP16... that's DOUBLE the size of what I proposed, so I'm definitely overstepping here.
Pardon me being obtuse, I don't care much for the budget/mid-range Exynos chipsets. They've been flawed one way or another, at every single generation. So keep the comparisons to the Snapdragon's, since that is the "benchmark" to match/beat in the marketplace. And trust me, this MediaTek Helio P90 does not have what it takes.
You're better off with a cheaper QSD 636, or spend a bit more money for the new QSD 678/750, and if you want to advance further just go directly to the flagship QSD 855.
PS: The 2x Cortex A76's should hit 2.4GHz and maintain that frequency for a decent while (10mins?), whereas the 6x Cortex A55's aren't as crucial. They can have a maximum 2.0GHz clock speed, but I expect them to start getting limited around the 1.8GHz mark (since at this point they're not performing much more work, but they are choking the energy balance). Hence, they can hit 2.0GHz and only maintain it for 3 minutes, then drop down to 1.8GHz....for all I care it doesn't makes as much difference as the BIG cores does.
Kangal, 15 Dec 2018Your method was flawed, but your conclusion is correct.
The max frequency is not what the GPU... moreI think the same. But pushing A55 to 2 GHz is a bit too much. I think 1.9 GHz would be fine.
Plus. I've worked with mediatek. ONE THING I've learnt that Mediatek NEVER goes beyond 4 GPU cores.