Samsung Galaxy S11 to feature 9-to-1 Bayer sensor on its 108MP camera Comments
- Anonymous
- XRg
Nick Tagataka, 17 Dec 2019On top of that, it has a dim F2.4 lens, and the sensor used is not BSI so the wirings cut out ... moreIt's 2 micron pixel size but resolution was a meagre 4MP which is unusable in 2020
The Last Oracle, 17 Dec 2019Either they have multiple sensors for photo and video (which they do, anyways, and this sensor... moreI'm just making a super wild guess, but could it be possible that for 6k they use a 32MP Wide angle only? They could use 2 good quality sensors from Sony?
And the normal angle camera is just the same 108/9 = 12MP?
- The Last Oracle
- rKu
Samath N8 808 owner, 17 Dec 2019I remember the discussion with you. I said that maybe they're working on a flexible 1-1, 4-1, ... moreEither they have multiple sensors for photo and video (which they do, anyways, and this sensor could be exclusively a photo sensor on the S11 series), or they crip into a portion of the image for painting the 16:9 ratio.
- The Last Oracle
- rKu
Nick Tagataka, 17 Dec 2019That's from the noise reduction that iOS camera applies and the difference in optics quality, ... moreNo. You're getting it wrong. Final image resolution includes many factors including glass or lens, processing, sensor technology (readout speed, dynamic range etc), CFA (bayer reduces detail and light hitting the sensor drastically) etc.
Since the CFA is also physically attached (stuck on via dots), on the sensor, it too makes a huge difference.
Smaller sensors have way touch of colour (and other forms of) aliasing noise, thus reducing the final resolution. Their lenses also don't resolve that many pixels, and the sensor. So many of these are greatly mitigating factors.
- Anonymous
- LQu
Nick Tagataka, 17 Dec 2019How do you explain the lack of rolling shutter effect on a year old iPhone XS' camera then? Th... moreSmaller sensors have less rolling shutter than bigger.
Almost non existent on cellphones.
- LG Superfan
- sSy
LG Superfan, 17 Dec 20191.4 vs 1.6 pixel size is small difference so if someone was expecting mind blowingly better re... moreFormer is still quite lacking*
- LG Superfan
- sSy
Nick Tagataka, 16 Dec 2019"Everyone was hyping the 1.6um pixel size of 48MP and 64MP Quad Bayer sensors, yet their resul... more1.4 vs 1.6 pixel size is small difference so if someone was expecting mind blowingly better results its a disappointment and quad bayer was meant to provide high quality digital zoom (comparable to 3x optical iirc) and low light pictures with little noise compared to traditional 12MP sensors which it does but latter is still quite lacking
Nick Tagataka, 16 Dec 2019So those who were claiming Samsung will stick to 12MP resolution sensor were perfectly right, ... moreI remember the discussion with you. I said that maybe they're working on a flexible 1-1, 4-1, 9-1, 16-1 pixel merging system of some kind, but you said it might bring artifacts or so, & I agreed.
Now, one thing is still not clear to me:->
Samsung have officially mentioned 6K video recording in an article, which means lowest output must be 24 Megapixels. They mentioned tetracell and S11 in the same article.
With a nona bayer, it would be impossible.
So, what is all this adding to? Is my 1,4,9,16 free-choice theory actually gonna happen, or is it either 4 or 9 via bayer?
This IceUniverse guy is reliable though so there's something true in his words.
- Nick Tagataka
- gRx
The Last Oracle, 17 Dec 2019Check the (b&w) sketch of the old guy in the photo. Both the Sony A7SII and the iPhone X c... moreThat's from the noise reduction that iOS camera applies and the difference in optics quality, it's nothing to do with sensors' raw resolution. Select Pixel 2 instead of iPhone X and you'll see a lot closer battle.
- The Last Oracle
- rKu
Nick Tagataka, 17 Dec 2019On top of that, it has a dim F2.4 lens, and the sensor used is not BSI so the wirings cut out ... moreThe 808 was definitely a pathbreaking camera, but there are many areas where there is absolutely no comparison, like lowlight photo. Or high frame rates. Or fast processing. Or superb HDR.
The 808 also, apparently did 4x zoom in 1080p and 6x in 720p video, apart from its lossless 5MP photo zooms. Which was before actual zooms made it to smartphone (whether with actual zoom lenses or with lenses of varying lenses, and switching between them through a simulated zoom).
Maybe due to the terrible Symbian Ecosystem and a few hardware issues the 808 did not become the Hreatest Smartphone Photography experience, of its time, that it rightly deserved to have been.
- The Last Oracle
- rKu
The Last Oracle, 17 Dec 2019Check the (b&w) sketch of the old guy in the photo. Both the Sony A7SII and the iPhone X c... moreHere
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=sony_a7sii&attr13_1=panasonic_dcgh5s&attr13_2=apple_iphonex&attr13_3=panasonic_dclx100ii&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=160&attr16_2=32&attr16_3=200&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.6000438047064446&y=-0.13738695780832957
- The Last Oracle
- rKu
Nick Tagataka, 16 Dec 2019How is it possible when the sensor only captures 12MP of color resolution?Check the (b&w) sketch of the old guy in the photo. Both the Sony A7SII and the iPhone X capture 12MP stills. But, in actually detail (despite HDR?), the Sony seems to capture about 2 times the actual detail of the iPhone.
The Bayer Pattern reduces detail between 1/4th due to the CFA and low light by about 1/2.5th. Plus focus pixels reduce this detail further, because they occupy space on the image sensor too. Software does compensate for some of the detail loss, but it is nowhere the amount lost by the Bayer Pattern
- The Last Oracle
- rKu
Nick Tagataka, 16 Dec 2019That certainly sounds interesting if it's true, though I'm curious how Nona Bayer could get ri... moreNo. The proximity and size of the green in the CFA causes colour aliasing noise. While it's difficult to replace the green (with yellow or some other colour, it's also important to contain the damage to detail and noise the colour green seems to do. Green pixel next to each other in certain arrangements seem to create this. So the 9 pixel setup seems better, in some ways.
- The Last Oracle
- rKu
Anonymous, 17 Dec 2019I bet Sony's IMX is still far superior. Actually there aren't 2 cameras with all hardware which are identical, one with a Sony and one with a Samsung image sensor. So all these curious assumptions are difficult to answer.
- harlekkin
- PUa
Anonymous, 16 Dec 2019Wrong, Quad Bayer sensors use hardware pixel binning which combine pixels on a hardware level,... moreWell of course it's HARDWARE but they are still separate pixels. But why? Why do this instead of creating larger 12mpx sensors?
- Nick Tagataka
- gRx
YUKI93, 17 Dec 2019"M8's low light performance is completely garbage if you compare it to any modern midrange sma... more"What to expect when there is no such thing as software algorithm or Night Mode back then, just the hardware doing its best job"
I mean, you're the one who said they are "are still hard to beat when it comes to low light", I'm merely trying to refute your first statement.
- Anonymous
- vxs
I bet Sony's IMX is still far superior.
- YUKI93
- ibj
Nick Tagataka, 17 Dec 2019On top of that, it has a dim F2.4 lens, and the sensor used is not BSI so the wirings cut out ... more"M8's low light performance is completely garbage if you compare it to any modern midrange smartphones..."
What to expect when there is no such thing as software algorithm or Night Mode back then, just the hardware doing its best job.
"Nokia 808 doesn't even have a large pixel in the first place"?
It's 1.4µm and is the same pixel size you got from today's Samsung or Apple or Google.
- Nick Tagataka
- gRx
YUKI93, 17 Dec 2019What do you mean by Nokia 808 "when you consider its sensor size"? To this day, even the senso... moreOn top of that, it has a dim F2.4 lens, and the sensor used is not BSI so the wirings cut out significant amount of lights that touches the photodiodes. Furthermore, your first statement that Nokia 808 PV and One M8 "are still hard to beat when it comes to low light thanks to their native sensor's big pixel size" is blatantly false. M8's low light performance is completely garbage if you compare it to any modern midrange smartphones, and Nokia 808 doesn't even have a large pixel in the first place.
- YUKI93
- ibj
LG Superfan, 16 Dec 2019This is interesting btw anyone knows how big are Huawei camera pixels after binning? Huawei's camera pixels after binning is rated at 2.0 micron pixel, the same as HTC One M8.
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