Nicolas F, 04 Mar 2020Yeah, I've seen news here, but thanks anyway.
Blacksharks never had NFC, so yeah, it's not an... moreDon't worry UFS 3.0 is quite recent, but eventually more than enough devices will have it, that's a logical evolution, same for the SD865, so you are almost guarantee to find a device that you want.
There was a time where NFC wasn't on a big number of flagship, but now, mostly with Google Pay, it become a normal thing to have, same for the Telephoto, mostly recently with the periscope which allow powerful optical zoom and the new race for bigger zoom started with the Oppo Reno 10X Zoom, considering that the Redmi K30 Pro will have a Zoom variant, we can say for sure the war is indeed started !
OIS is also quite normal to have, most 400¤+ devices have them now.
And with the quickly approaching underdisplay camera, you'll have soon a variety of notchless and punch-holeless device to choose from, I am really not worry for you to find your dream phone in mid/end 2020.
Don't worry about the big text, just remember that the big trend that are on the majority of smartphones are fine to openly criticize, but for way less common things criticizing them can cause their popularity to drop severely, the best is actually to all commonly criticize the most common thing together and each defend our own preferences, that's the best way to force the market to open for more variety.
Because if you participate in lowering the popularity of X feature, the market will more likely get away from it and it will reinforce their actual way of making only the same kind of device and only focusing on the trending feature which is also detrimental to your own desired feature.
AnonD-909757, 03 Mar 2020There is no PM on this website so I contact you here, but there is a new phone with regular an... moreYeah, I've seen news here, but thanks anyway.
Blacksharks never had NFC, so yeah, it's not an option. Telephoto and OIS are not a big deal, but for $400-500+ phones I think they are quite necessary :) UFS 3.0 - it's just a really big leap in storage reading speed which results in faster apps loading, and that's just more convenient.
I would answer on that two your big comments someday, just too tired with new job and stuff :3
Nicolas F, 28 Feb 2020> "where YOURS research to prove YOUR points against the pop up ?"
Proving should be "pr... moreThere is no PM on this website so I contact you here, but there is a new phone with regular and pro variant which emerged and which fit quite well (through not perfectly) your requirements, those are the Blackshark 3 and Blackshark 3 Pro :
SD 865 and really powerful and more than 8GB Ram, Thin top and bottom Bezel with large speakers, Less than 78mm wide, UFS 3.0, fingerprint reader, Accelerometers, Gyros, Compass, Proximity (through I don't guaranty this isn't through the camera), Ultrawide camera, Wi-Fi ac and even Wi-Fi ax ! Bluetooth 5.1 ! Battery of 4720 mAh and 65W fast recharge.
No mention of Gorilla Glass, No Telephoto, No optical zoom, No OIS, no NFC (I know that depending on if you like to pay with your smartphone it could be a big negative point here).
Except the Gorilla Glass I can understand why it lack the other features because it is technically made for games, but it could still have used them through !
people have so much time to write such big comments :P
Nicolas F, 28 Feb 2020> "where YOURS research to prove YOUR points against the pop up ?"
Proving should be "pr... moreSadly it is the case, there is both press (which they now stopped as THEY did their homework and understood that this system don't cause any actual issues) and user criticisms can affect quite dramatically things, even sometime a single comment can change things.
Mostly nowaday that brand start to realize more and more that listening to their actual audience is important and some even have official Reddit where they carefully read user suggestions and complains, even if smartphone brand are late to the party they start doing it more and more, like for the Redmi K30 Pro where one of the official literally made a pool on a Chinese social media asking if peoples prefer punch hole or pop up, BTW the majority answered pop up.
And actually that's call studying the market, you don't just make random product and prey they sell well, you actually need to understand market psychology and not only follow trend, but also try to guess what will be the next trend, which is why so many are trying to do underdisplay camera right now, because they are the new trend and they knew it before starting designing their phone which for some happened before it was a popular idea, you can't just change the design mid course like that, you need to actually know what you are doing, and press media ARE a great way to know that as they themselves influence user by being the one who introduce to peoples the concept/existence of those new technologies, and user reactions to that are also to take into consideration.
And because too many peoples (mostly the same repeating it over and over, everywhere) always said the same totally false myth about the pop up, it scared a lot of potential pop up lovers and marketing department know that.
Many peoples simply say that Chinese OS are bad, so just for avoiding trying to sort which are good and which aren't (which at the end become more a personnal taste thing than a real identifiable set of parameters that can be taken into consideration), I simply removed them from the list, I own a OnePlus, and if OnePlus, Oppo or any other brand exept for Huawai (because of how they'll get blocked from everywhere) do a phone that fit my desires, I'll buy it, though that being said, except maybe OnePlus which have since the beginning be more a weastern like phone in every point, most Chinese phones have actually not so great OS, part of the reason is because of their target audience, not from where they originate.
You just prove here that you have absolutely no knowledge how photography work on Smartphones.
A smartphone have really small camera sensor and there is a reason why despite that they have a ridiculously high megapixel count, anyone with basic knowledge of how sensor work will tell you that actually this is useless to put that much MP on such small sensor as you literally loose quality because you get less photons per pixels, but anyone with a better knowledge on how all that work will actually tel you that the RAW quality of smartphone pictures is NOT the main objective, the real objective is to obtain the maximum amount of informations and THEN use AI rendering to actually output a beautiful picture that can rival Reflex, without the AI the picture would be Meh.
Every additional sensors have an IMPORTANT role, which include offloading task from the system that will need to compute those informations from the RAW picture itself in order to actually perform computation on it :
The RAW picture can be useful for anyone who want to edit themselves the pictures as it contain more informations, because you need a loseless compression to actually perform a real and good editing, which regular jpeg isn't.
Depth sensor are indeed useful for both AI rendering, but also it can help boost the autofocus performances while Macro is literally meant for taking...Macro !
On Reflex you have the "luxury" to change from a telephoto to a macro objective to take for example a picture of a bird a little far away and then take a picture of a flower up close, then change again to a portrait to take a picture of someone for a souvenir type picture.
On smartphone you don't for almost all of them have the ability to change the objective, so manufacturer, on popular demand added those, that's the point of having GOOD camera, either you have shitty camera and no additional sensors and you don't have to complain about it, or you have a lot of advanced camera that come with everything those who love photography would want.
This include :
_A good main objective with optical stabilisation that polyvalent and can take a variety of good pictures without being specialized into some specific fields.
_A telephoto able to give great optical zoom (as opposed to digital zoom which have no choice but simply loose quality) with virtually almost no degradation.
_A portrait which is optimized in a LOT of way, from focus to light collection and even color to take picture at the typical range of a portrait type picture.
_A macro which is like a portrait in term of optimisations but mostly made for closeup, it will give way better quality on closeup than any other sensors, even a regular macro could outperform a good high end general use objective when it come to close up, there is also the blur and background focus that can be taken into consideration and that in a lot of case, one would like to actually use one or another.
There is even examples of peoples doing effort to buy or DIY macro lenses to put on their smartphone camera, and the result simply can't be acquired without those addon or a dedicated macro objective :
_Wide and Ultra Wide angles, both of which being used to take large pictures without relying on the less than ideal software panorama tool which can't deal with moving things as many funny pictures demonstrate.
Any combinaison of those sensors or even all of them is for many a GOOD thing.
Well a lot of peoples won't be in a situation where they actually are limited by the memory speed but are in situation where they actually WANT or NEED those additional camera sensors, yet YOUR taste is justified, but the taste of others isn't ?
See, that's actually exactly why I said that in the first place, why would you care about that, it is totally optional and don't affect performances, only time which by being patient is not an issue.
(That and also that phone finder websites sadly lack many key search features, including UFS 3.0).
See how unpleasant it is when someone else disregard the feature YOU want, and even come up with arguments to counter it, when we talk about totally mainsteam features this isn't an issue, but when we talk about rare occurrences, that's a really negative, even toxic attitude to have.
Well I still have found one with your features, now you are complaining about OTHER features, meanwhile there isn't simply any with my own features.
Sony Xperia 1 II and Samsung Galaxy S7 Active are just alternative that have still some of your most desired features, purely as examples.
Yes, with YOUR feature set there is "only one more", with MY feature set in the most naked version (pop up + 3D facial recognition) there is ONLY ONE, and keep in mind we are talking about a naked version of my wishlist, only two single elements.
I don't have the luxury to set a release year, a maximum witdh, ram, camera or even OIS or anything else like you did, and I have plenty more wanted features, they are just not all in the same smartphone because there is a clear lack of pop up divercity.
Most being the same with a single camera and only ONE have real facial recognition capability, and it is old (no point replacing my OnePlus 6t with it), expensive and hard to find, had issues, lacked features, had the first gen indisplay fingerprint reader (literally one of the first) which is slow and quite bad and any other missing features.
THAT is hard to find, your I find one and you found another one that match quite well, albeit not perfectly your wishlist, I can't find a single one that match my most basic wishes and worth upgrading to it, considering you choose 2019 or more recent, if I do the same (which is totally an honest move) I don't find a single one.
Ok so you make the distinction between UFS 3.0 and its older variant (which is just a faster variant) but a phone that have a part that AUTOMATICALLY slide and another one which have the WHOLE BACK sliding and being manually done is for you the same ?
I am sorry, what ?
Nicolas F, 28 Feb 2020> "where YOURS research to prove YOUR points against the pop up ?"
Proving should be "pr... moreListen kid, you aren't going to tell me how science is done, and actually as much as you can't claim that something is real without any evidences you ALSO can't tell it isn't real if you have no evidences that it ISN'T real, that's literally how the Big Bang is, and for a while Gravitational waves, Higgs Boson, Black holes and many other things were, we had no direct proof of them yet we still actively research for them until we actually find them or find proof they aren't real (which in those 3 example aren't the case), if we followed your logic science wouldn't have progressed by simply denying anything that scientist "think" isn't real, which is actually the OPPOSITE of how science is done.
Actually the absence of evidences something don't exist can lead to consider it as real, here the fact that you don't find any reliable number of report of pop up failure IS a proof that they actually are working well and don't cause issue by themselves, the only issues I read about were software, which is 1 patchable, and 2 isn't the fault of the mechanism itself in a way that mean it have flow that will be carried out on other models or brands.
Because that's pointless and MOSTLY because they don't have any official IP rating and as MOST brand they also don't cover any warranty for water damages, meaning it would literally be counterproductive to have any video of that kind.
Do you see any car brand video of their SEDAN doing heavy offroad to prove their car has a strong enough suspension just because they use a new type that peoples aren't confident in its toughness, MOSTLY if the car is not designed for offroad ?
Here this is the same, the smartphone don't have any IP certification, Oppo never had, yet they said their phone is waterproof enough, but they can't then post an official video of their phone doing something it is not officially designed to do, which is the point of IP rating.
And here against, proof by absence of evidences, I never saw any report of accidental drop on water causing the phone to be damaged or any issues related to dust.
Even if there are, they are a minority and can't be conclusively taken as direct evidence.
Peoples like you against the pop up who are on a crusade to take it down often use wear and fragility as arguments against it, so THIS is relevant, if you didn't knew about those video I'd bet you'll be bragging about how pop up are fragile and have wear (they do, but as if it was a major issue).
I never said that bezel is wasting space, but having a bezel to ONLY host a single camera and a speaker and nothing else, not even ambiant light and proximity sensors that have no valid reasons to be removed on a non notch/punch hole smartphone is a big waste of space, mainly when we consider that they still put tiny speaker on it.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against bezel, not only they are my second preferred choice after pop up camera, but I also respect all those who prefer phones with bezel while they are rare nowadays.
I'd take a smartphone with bezel over one with a notch or punch hole anyday, mainly now that I experienced notch and know the space it waste on the notification bar made me turn it off through settings which basically turned my OnePlus 6T from a almost fullscreen phone with notch to one with a bezel, the additional notification and statut icons I get out of it and the absence of incompatibilities issue worth having a bezel like phone rather than a notch.
The day notch and punch hole will start disappearing I won't make any negative criticisms against them.
But having sensors stored inside a pop up (that for me don't make any difference from a bezel in term of practicality while giving a true fullscreen experience) have for MAIN advantage to the USER PRIVACY, for many peoples, including you apparently, privacy isn't a concern, but you simply ignore how bad are the extend of privacy leak, from pirate threatening to reveal really intimate pictures or extremely embarrassing moment taken from you without knowing it against a huge amount of money, identity theft which make one's life a true nightmare they wouldn't wish on their worse enemy to even way more serious consequences including up toward heavily facilitating a democratic government to do really unacceptable things including silencing down peoples to easily turn into a true dictatorship, I don't usually talk about those extends because for most peoples it is so hard to believe that just giving away some data that look totally innocent could literally lead to a government turning evil dictatorship without any way to stop it, and most would simply think I am crazy to think about such stupid thing that "are obviously impossible", but you'd be surprised of the damages privacy leak already did, and having a really insecure computer who can potentially constantly be connected to internet with a camera that everytime you use it is up your face, is a really bad idea, and ONLY the pop up camera (or the absence of any front camera which is not happening) is able to prevent that, BTW this is thanks to pop up camera that many apps and websites have been known to take sneak illegal pictures of the user.
43 in 2019 ? That's it ? that's what you call not a disappearing thing ?
It's rare to begin with !
Btw most of those actually were released in early 2019, because the peak of pop up was between the end of 2018 and mid 2019, now lets not forget that the result show multiple time the same phone or subvariant where almost nothing change and see how many there really is :
Xiaomi : Mi 9T, Mi 9T Pro = 2 (K20 and Mi 9T are the same)
OnePlus : 7 Pro, 7T Pro = 2 (and I could easily count 1 as the T variant isn't that different)
Oppo : Reno, Reno 2, F11, Reno 10x zoom, K3 = 5
Honor : 9X = 1
Asus : Zenphone 6 = 1
Samsung : Galaxy A80 = 1
Motorola : One Hyper = 1
Realme : Realme X = 1
Vivo : V15, V17, NEX 3, X27, S1 = 5
BLU, Allview : Are those even real brands ?
Not going to count Huawei because of the whole Trump thing forcing their phone to have many restrictions including no more Google app store.
Same for 5G, as 5G model don't add anything other models already have and cost more for a technology I won't even be able to use for the next 4 years or more.
Result : 2+2+5+1+1+1+1+1+5 = 19.
From ALL TIME released that GsmArena have and without removing any doubles, there is a grand total of 55 !
55 phones with pop up !!!! That's nothing !
For 2019 alone there is 282 phone with notches and 43 with punch holes, and 150 without (removing the 50 pop up ones there is 110 left) !
Even with your own presets you still have more phones total than the total number of phone with pop up that the phone finder is able to find !
you even go as far as having the luxury to choose stuff like width, minimum internal memory, telephoto, compass, and Wi-Fi AC, yet there is more result than me ONLY choosing "Pop Up" but YOU are the one acting as if you were looking for the most rare object in the universe and other exaggerate how hard to find their smartphone is.
So considering that most pop up were released first half of 2019 and by the end there were becoming decreasingly existent and only a few have been released or even announced during the 2 month of 2020, YES they are disappearing.
Part 2 of the answer in pending to be approved by a moderator.
AnonD-909757, 28 Feb 2020And how do you know that the fingerprint reader is any better than the facial unlock then ?
W... more> "where YOURS research to prove YOUR points against the pop up ?"
Proving should be "pro" in the first place, not "against", that's basis of logic science.
> "they have other things, more productive to do than proving that a really simple system isn't fragile"
That's yadda yadda; if they released two other videos (which I never said was bad) - why don't they make other videos, about water and dust? The amount of work would be just the same, wouldn't it?
> ""Oh, now you have proof, well I don't care"."
I didn't care about lifting weights and wear of pop-up in the first place, so this nitpick is pointless.
> "so now wasting that space on a device where the expectations is that it will come with all the mandatory sensors (which include ambiant light and proximity sensors)"
Didn't understand that part: if these sensors are mandatory (plus there is speaker), why is placing them above screen to work properly is "wasting space"? And if there were 2-cameras 3D facial recognition system, wouldn't they be placed better in the top bezel?
> "pop up camera is DISAPPEARING"
Phone Finder says there were 8 phones with pop-up in 2018 and 43 - in 2019. Disappearing much? Yes, curved displays exist for a longer period, but still, for now it's clearly rising.
> "there is a lot of reasons, including peoples like you"
LOL, do you really think internet criticism can affect smartphone manufacturers strategies?
> "where I excluded any Chinese phone (no update issues)"
Xiaomi and OnePlus are Chinese and have no update issues. Don't be racist.
> "considering "no stupid pseudo-cameras" mean nothing"
Pseudo-cameras are dedicated depth and macro sensors which are just marketing bs.
> "I don't see why you would care about UFS 3.0"
[sarcasm] Yeah, really, why would I care about significant increase in speed of I/O operations (especially reading) in smartphone's storage.
> "Asus ROG Phone 2"
Little availability, not great fingerprint reader, big price, ASUS doesn't look reliable in smartphone business, so update issues are possible, phone is quite big and heavy, no OIS, no telephoto camera, no AF on ultra-wide camera. Could be good candidate though.
> "Sony Xperia 1 II"
No UFS 3.0, display's pixel density and resolution is unnecessarily big, but battery capacity is comparatively low, I would prefer display of 68 mm width instead of 65 - better for typing, big price, Could be good candidate though.
> "Samsung Galaxy S7 Active"
Yeah, ROFL. It doesn't even have Bluetooth 5! =)
> "there are plenty more"
No, there is only one: https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2019&nPriceMin=50&nWidthMax=78&nRamMin=8000&nIntMemMin=128000&chkCameraOIS=selected&chkCameraTele=selected&chkCameraUltrawide=selected&chkAccelerometer=selected&chkGyro=selected&chkCompass=selected&chkProximity=selected&chkNFC=selected&chkUSBC=selected&nBatCapacityMin=3500&nChargingMin=15&sFormFactors=1&idFingerprint=1&sWLANs=3&sBluetooths=8&nOrder=1
After you exclude all Huawei/Honor/Oppo/Vivo/Lenovo/ZTE, curved displays, pop-up, punch-hole - only OnePlus 7T will be left. So, don't say "easy to find" when you don't really know it.
> "sliding phone aren't pop up"
The essence is just the same.
Nicolas F, 27 Feb 2020So what? Do I not have a right for an opinion? You can love curved displays, but they are u... moreSo what if it collects dust? What will happen? The pop up won't come up? Looks like somebody care? You are the one who is stupid here.. the oneplus is waterproof albeit not official.. but if water doesn't get inside the chip.. dust won't.. i would rather have it hidden that a hole in the display..
Anonymous, 28 Feb 2020But you're also using the usb c port to connect your headphones, which means it wears out fast... moreI agree that having both USB and Jack is a JUST HAVE, I, for example own a Corsair Voir Pro and I love it and I don't want any earphone, I am totally fine with headphone for my use, removing the Jack port only mean removing native support for a lot (most) audio device that are not only great quality but also come in lot of varieties !
And anyone with any decent sound quality expectation would not even consider using Bluetooth to listen to music or movies.
As Mr pop up fan and worshiper, I am sorry but I have to step in !
Watch and believe :
Now that's considering that :
a: No serious effort toward making it actually waterproof have been made, we don't see any kind of seal or anything, yet it have a great water resistance considering the water torture test done and the relatively little water which got inside.
b: That technology it in its infancy because it lack popularity, mostly because of misconceptions about it, a great improvement could be to put the camera (along with other sensors) in a sealed compartment which itself will be in a totally sealed slot in the phone body, electromagnets could be used to actuate the module and simple magnets by proximity to held it in place (with springs up and down to dampen the movement).
A flexible flat data cable or better, non oxydable pins working by contact would be a perfect solution to allow data and power to goes through without any waterproof compromise, it would result in a lightning fast pop up actuation, a almost unbreakable mechanism with virtually no wear and one of the most waterproof part of the phone.
ipap, 27 Feb 2020Do you get paid for those comments? Who cares abou wireless charging? The speed of the phone i... moreBut you're also using the usb c port to connect your headphones, which means it wears out faster than while using 2 ports. Fast charging is nice, can't deny that. But why not 2 options to charge? I broke the usb port of my previous phone, but guess what, I was still able to charge it.
And water resistence while having a pop-up camera? I don't believe it tbh
And I don't use a Samsung or an Apple phone fyi, my current phone is one from LG.
But I can't deny the screen is one of the best available right now, if only the resolution was higher...
Nicolas F, 28 Feb 2020> "It is secure enough that the version used by Apple is literally unbreakable and even the... moreAnd how do you know that the fingerprint reader is any better than the facial unlock then ?
We could even push further your own attempt at counter argumentation here and play your own game by saying "how do you know the fingerprint reader is working at all, have you verify it ? Maybe there are totally different sensors including facial recognition that actually confirm your presence and fake the work of a fingerprint reader" and it would be as valid, because technically nothing have really been proved for the fingerprint reader too, yet you are saying it is superior to the face unlock for some reasons.
I don't see how a flat picture of a actually difficult to picture right small pattern on the finger that have been proved to be actually not as unique as it was one though could actually rival in anyway taking enough data of a face to know its exact shape, get its color, get its lots of details that can't be seen using regular methods and who also can't get fooled by pictures or even 3D printed head models, and because peoples like you prevent this system from getting more popular and better, even the advanced one still get fooled by 3D print because there isn't any real skin detection yet, which UV camera and spectrometer would fix because the skin details would be nearly impossible to reproduce on a 3D printed head and you can't just make a fake skin with the spectral property of real skin while reproducing UV details and getting the shape right all at once without using serious scanning of the person head first, meaning almost no one would be able to forcefully bypass that except if they literally abduct you and scan your face, fingerprint meanwhile can easily be fooled.
Well ok I was a little enthusiast on the twins part, it don't work that good on all twins, some do, other don't, the software isn't really setup for that case as it is only a minority of occurrences and it need room for error as the face don't stay the same, yet with improvement it could be 100% able to tell them, but it surely isn't by not using and improving the tech that it will be able to.
There is exemples bases on real life and identical/reliable systems/mechanisms, its just logic description, also, where YOURS research to prove YOUR points against the pop up ?
Why don't OnePlus that could rate their non pop up phone with IP certification and claim that their phone are waterproof don't showcase the phone in water ?
That's the same thing, they have other things, more productive to do than proving that a really simple system isn't fragile because OnePlus already did release two video, a 48h long one of continuous operation of the pop up and a 20Kg lifting one which are enough for anyone with common sense.
And yes, now that there is a video proving something, "it doesn't concern you", that's the typical denial case of "you haven't got any proof I don't believe you" > "Oh, now you have proof, well I don't care".
Exactly it is a smartphone, something that is for a lot of users already TOO LARGE while the display itself isn't the largest one ever and is still supposed to browse the internet that's primarily made for monitors.
Meaning that how space is utilized is CRITICAL, more than a monitor who actually, except in the case of multiple monitors setup, don't have any issues having large borders, on a phone that the majority of the customers wish them to be smaller and a display that's already too small, every little bit of space that can be used is important, so now wasting that space on a device where the expectations is that it will come with all the mandatory sensors (which include ambiant light and proximity sensors) to ONLY put a camera is just stupid, mainly when you use the camera for doing the job of other sensors who do it faster, more reliably, while using less battery and wasting less general computing power...All that just in the name of a stupid trend of removing a part of the display to host a single useless camera.
Curved edge display is SPREADING, pop up camera is DISAPPEARING, that's the difference, there is a lot of reasons, including peoples like you, that will cause the pop up to never go mainstream and actually kill it !
The same is also true for any 3D/Secured facial recognition sensors, that's a rare sight on any Android device regardless of the camera hosting method.
Are you kidding ?
You are describing a BASIC phone here, the 3D face unlock and pop up camera ARE the rare things !
A 2 minute search where I excluded any Chinese phone (no update issues) and considering "no stupid pseudo-cameras" mean nothing and that I don't see why you would care about UFS 3.0, I find those :
Asus ROG Phone 2 (Flat, no pop up & hole & notch/NFC/UFS 3.0/6KmAh/30W)
Sony Xperia 1 II (Flat, no pop up & hole & notch/NFC/4KmAh/21W)
Samsung Galaxy S7 Active (Flat, no pup up etc/NFC/4KmAh)
One phone perfectly matching your description, one partially and one which does a little, and that's just example, there are plenty more :
Now find me one with a Snapdragon 865, pop up camera with 3D facial unlock and 3D Sonic Max fingerprint reader and THEN we will talk about what it is to want features that are REALLY rare.
Hell just a pop up camera with a 3D facial recognition is a pain to find, except the Oppo Find X (sliding phone aren't pop up) I don't see any, while you, the equivalent : No notch/hole/pop up and fingerprint reader combinaison is EXTREMELY easy to find, even trowing non curved edges display still make it easy to find !
If you want your alternative to hole and pop up, start by NOT killing other alternatives so that more variety could emerge and show the phone company that there are markets available for more alternative design.
Yet you are the one complaining about not having choice while also complaining on the rare phone who have rare feature that they shouldn't have them...Sure !!! Way to go dude.
AnonD-909757, 28 Feb 2020Ah, here we go again with some totally wrong misconceptions about the pop up.
The pop up is t... more> "It is secure enough that the version used by Apple is literally unbreakable and even the FBI need to beg Apple to hack the device for them, it may actually be the most secured authentification system on any portable device, it can reliably tell twins appart with ease."
How do you know that it's all true? Btw, Apple only stated efficiency of their Face ID, but never proved it by publishing actual researches and stuff.
That also counts for all that "50k/1 chances" - how are they measured? Why don't we know how they are measured?
> "Here, read this huge text"
No poofs, no researches, only speculations.
If pop-up system can be that reliable, why companies themselves did not publish videos on how they test it against water, dust, etc? That wouldn't cost them much. Yes, I heard about such videos about lifting weights - it doesn't concern me.
Don't bash on Meizu and "wasted space" - it's a smartphone, not a monitor!
> "I mean no one force you to buy one, it isn't like it have any risk to become the major new trend"
Yeah, I thought the same about curved edges display - and look where we are now. The only smartphone without bs and with proper features (no curved screen, no pop-up or punch-hole, no stupid pseudo-cameras; UFS 3.0, NFC, good battery efficiency, adequate software updates, fast charging and USB) remains to be OnePlus 7T. Yeah, so plenty, much choice.
Nicolas F, 27 Feb 2020Pop-up camera is bad because it will collect dust.
Why would you need dual selfie camera?
... moreAh, here we go again with some totally wrong misconceptions about the pop up.
The pop up is tight enough to prevent water coming it for extended period of time, what chances dust have to get in ? And even if a little bit get it, what would it do ?
Jack and USB port and the slit between the buttons don't suffer any dust related issues, why would the pop up ?
Here, read this huge text I wrote and which debunk those misconceptions about the pop up mechanism :
Dual selfie camera is one way to get 3D picture based facial recognition, though it require to be further appart than we see in this render here which is a great opportunity to put IR cam and dot projectors.
Actually you are totally wrong, when properly implemented facial recognition is THE most secure identification method available on Android, and the curent fingerprint reader are actually the one who are gimmick and insecure, though it is to change soon.
Facial recognition is a gimmick BECAUSE too much peoples actually, like you, say it is a gimmick, because when it use only a single camera, yes it is the most insecure authentification method on the phone, but when you add just 2 camera far enough appart to get stereoscopic effect, the security drastically improve, but when it shine is when more advanced sensors are used, such as IR camera which reveal details that visible light camera don't usually show and dot projector which make a really precise map of the face.
It is secure enough that the version used by Apple is literally unbreakable and even the FBI need to beg Apple to hack the device for them, it may actually be the most secured authentification system on any portable device, it can reliably tell twins appart with ease.
Now add an UV camera to also reveal other details and a basic spectrometer that all that, and you have a virtually impossible to hack system :
2 regular camera, non only helping giving depth informations which actually improve the picture (as the small optical sensor on Smartphone unlike the one found on Reflex rely more on the post treatment to make good picture than on the sensor itself, and the more data you have, the better is the result) to make sure it is a 3D face.
IR and UV to make sure it actually really is the good person as both reveal many details on the skin for the UV and the shape itself without being fooled by details for the IR
A spectrometer to make sure this is real flesh we are looking at.
And the dot projector to make sure it is a 3D object but also to efficiently recognize the face with great precision.
Actual fingerprint reader like the 3D Sonic from Qualcomm have a 50000/1 chances than another person is able with his finger, without doing any trick, could unlock your device.
Only the new Qualcomm 3D Sonic Max allow for better security with 1M/1 chances but also it is now precise enough to now only make sure that this is a real 3D fingerprint it read as previous/other methods could be fooled by a the simple tape method, but it also combine the practicality of large area reading (which is convenient) and possibility of 2 finger at once which greatly improve the safety level and make that indisplay one more secure than any other fingerprint reader solutions, and because the ultrasonic have a penetration in the finger itself, it can not only be used as a hearth beat reader, but more importantly it can make sure that this is a finger with blood flowing on it that it is reading also greatly improving the security, now THAT one is really secured and I actually REALLY want it, that doesn't mean I don't want facial unlock too.
Have you ever tested any facial unlock on your phone ?
I was against it me too at first, I preferred the fingerprint reader, but I tried, and well lets say that now, even if it is insecure, it is by far my favorite way to unlock my phone, even fingerprint feel unpractical in comparison, it is so pleasant to unlock the phone that way because you have nothing to do except pressing a button, it feel natural, fluid and fast while even if the fingerprint reader is fast, it still feel cumbersome next to it.
So, no, no dust issues, and there is no one who ever reported any dust related issue with their pop up.
And it isn't a gimmick at all and when implemented with the proper set of sensors (camera + IR + dot projectors) it already is the most secured authentication while a lot of test showed that the fingerprint reader was actually the worse one (though the pattern which can lets traces on the display can easily be bruteforced and is IMO the worse one) for actual sensors and facial unlock have room to improve with potential UV and spectrometer sensors.
Also did I mention that UV and IR camera could be used by a lot of various AI picture rendering methods to improve drastically the picture quality and also filter out undesired out of visible spectrum light that the camera module will still read through his filter ?
Also it can help compensate for shadow and glare and other exposure related imperfections.
And the dot projector can also be used as a quick way to gather distance information which can also improve many things including for focus.
I wuold rather choose flagship killers. (Like OP was at the beginnig) Redmi K20 Pro/Mi 9T Pro is more superior, couse it has almost everything in half the price. Bought one for 300$ from Aliexpress. (For my wife). Now i hope they make K30 Pro great again and i will buy it for myself.
I fully agree, almost everything about this phone is as good if not better than flagships costing twice as much. Even the camera is better than the S10+ as it has better and more natural post processing vs the S10+ which seems to be fake and oversaturated.
After using this phone I will never pay twice as much for something so mediocre like the Samsung, even the screen is more thoughtful and immersive with no notch or hole. The Pop-up up camera is superb and super quick as well.
For me the best Phone of 2019 is the Honor V30 Pro 5G !
CPU, camera, battery and all this for 569 Euro.
Very nice :)
ipap, 27 Feb 2020Do you get paid for those comments? Who cares abou wireless charging? The speed of the phone i... moreContext aside, why would any brand pay for negative comments about other brands instead of paying for positive comments about their own brand? First choice is too expensive.
AnonD-909757, 27 Feb 2020True, a flat display and a dual selfie cam + 3D facial recognition (IR cam + dot projectors) p... morePop-up camera is bad because it will collect dust.
Why would you need dual selfie camera?
The "facial recognition" is a gimmick compared to fingerprint reader one.
I just waiting for them to bring the headphone jack back. Wireless charging, and expandable memory. Then it will be worth the switch.
Micekkc, 27 Feb 2020No, what is? A stupid cutout hole or notch? Get over yourselfDo not attribute to me what I did not say.
No notch (top bezel) is better than a notch.
Notch (teardrop one) is better than a cutout hole and than a pop-up camera (they are similarly bad).