Anonymous, 16 Mar 2020I doubt software were improved for Mediatek's ISP...
Oppo always used Mediatek on non-Pro/low... moreNo point in debating whether OEM optimize Mediatek phone or not. I can't find anything for or against it.Though, Mediatek chipset is used by many including Realme, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi, Motorola, HTC, Sony and LG and it's a little hard to believe that none of the OEM will optimize their phone with Mediatek chipset.
Dimensity 1000L is a powerful chipset and whatever OEM do, they won't be able to hide that fact. I was also confused why the more powerful chipset was used on Reno3 and SD765G on Reno3 Pro. I am of opinion that Oppo chose to go with SD 765G on Pro version because it was more efficient and expensive along with better Image processing capability. I don't think Oppo would want to sabotage their own phones sale by gimping them. I mean if Oppo and Qualcomm didn't want Reno3 Pro(SD 765G) to look inferior to non-Pro version, why even launch the non-Pro model with more powerful chipset in the first place.
The way I see it, people firstly look at if the SOC is powerful or not, anyone who wanted to buy Reno3 Pro got confused after watching Reno3 having more performance. Also most people will not spend $500 on a Mediatek phone even if its a 5G one (due to their prejudice against Mediatek having performance and heating issues in the past). So maybe Oppo decided to discontinue Dimensity 1000L as it was not getting much sales and hampering the sales of Pro version and instead released the vitality editon with Snapdragon 765 chipset. Also Reno3 with 1000L was China only phone, and if Qualcomm was controlling OEMs then they would want the global version to use Snapdragon chip but Oppo launched it with Mediatek. So I don't think this weird choices by Oppo was influenced by Qualcomm, to me it seems Oppo want to earn more profit which is why they went with cheaper SOC for international version.
MStar was accquired by Mediatek for mostly touch sensor, ASIC and STB related things. I don't think MStar has much of an expertise in image processing algorithms. While MStar acquisition did help Mediatek grow more in the area of smart gadgets and appliances it probably didn't do much for their mobile division.
Qualcomm chip are definitely more expensive than Mediatek. It's hard to believe Qualcomm, as greedy as they are will be willing to sell their SOC at less than cost price.
SD 765G SOC use to cost around $70 when Dimensity 1000 released for $70, Qualcomm had no choice but to reduce the price of SD 765G by $25-$30 as SD 765G performance is much lower than Dimensity 1000L let alone Dimensity 1000. Qualcomm didn't reduce the price to kick Mediatek out of business...lol. SD 855+ still cost over $80, SD 865 most definitely cost over $110 due to 5G. So I don't see how Qualcomm is selling the chip at cost price, in fact they are overcharging. SD 765G initial price was $70 where as Dimensity 1000 which is a much more powerful chip costs $70.
Lastly, Qualcomm does dictate whatever happens in phone industry. They have been sued multiple times for anti-competitive behavior and unfair licensing fees so yeah Qualcomm definitely impact OEM's decision to some extent.Though I don't think it's much of a problem, if Qualcomm's malpractice gets out of hand there are laws which OEM and also others competing chipmaker can fallback to.
But the reason Qualcomm has managed to gain so much power over others is not just due to patents it's also because of their SOC. There SOC are undeniably the best out there for Android phones. Just look at SD 865 that chip can even record 8K videos,Dobly Vision videos, Unlimited Slo-Mo videos and can capture 64 MP shots while recording at 4K HDR and their 5G modem has down/up link of 7.5/3Gbps (though that kind is speed is useless for most consumer) not to mention their Adreno GPUs.
Mediatek's Dimensity series is a step up from there Helio X and G series counterpart, but it can't compete with the likes of SD 865 at all. Mediatek needs to put more emphasis on midrange chipset as this is the category where most people would consider buying phones with Mediatek chipset. Reno3(with Mediatek chipset) for $500 is expensive for most people; actually Oppo phones are expensive I won't even consider buying any of their phone regardless of what chip it has. Mediatek should concentrate on phones under $300 and slowly make their way up to flagship phones. That way people will start to trust Mediatek more and will be more willing to spend big money on their phones.
007roh, 16 Mar 2020Oppo is using Mediatek SOC for years and have many phones with Mediatek processor. They alread... moreI doubt software were improved for Mediatek's ISP...
Oppo always used Mediatek on non-Pro/lower-end...they spend less money on developement.
Even on Reno 3 5G...the Pro version use SD765...
Dimensity 1000L is already more powerfull, they can't afford to let it takes better photos than Pro
I think, Qualcomm's camera is simply copied...
Since they bought MStar, Mediatek has huge image management skills.
Even if it wasn't said, behind most high-end TV from Sony or Panasonic, there are Mediatek's soc (and Qualcomm can't do anything with LTE/CDMA patents to stop that)
Mediatek often did real demos of their photo skills at CES...
For exemple, they presented, for real, dual cameras before Apple and Huawei...with very good results...
But you never see a device with such a quality.
I think Mediatek should sell a smartphone with their own brand and their own software developement...but not sure Qualcomm would allow any licence on it.
The second point is Qualcomm's price...it's false information.
Mediatek's goal is around 30% profit per soc...because they need for investments.
Qualcomm's is able to sell soc under their production cost
For exemple, Qualcomm were condamned by european union for such a thing when they kill nvidia's modem.
Rumors said they reduce SD765's cost by 30% to kick Dimensity out.
How can they do that?
Very easy, Qualcomm needn't any profit on soc.
Profits on patents are so huge...and as some of these patents are essential, OEM has to pay without any choice.
You've got a Reno 3 5G Vitality Edition with a SD765 to replace dimensity 1000L and Reno 3 5G will disapear (see the ridiculous number of review on YouTube)
And the global edition here will use P90/95.
Oneplus will present 8 and 8 Pro on april, 15th
Rumors talk about Dimensity 1000 on 8 Lite...they will released it in july, I bet there won't be a Dimensity on it but a SD765G instead.
Formerly with Meizu (the only X30's customer), Qualcomm already forced to stop working with Mediatek.
In summary, on this market, Qualcomm decides, OEM obey...competitors died.
Anonymous, 16 Mar 2020It's true...
Night shots are very noisy on Redmi Note 8 Pro...
But strangely, you will get f... moreOppo is using Mediatek SOC for years and have many phones with Mediatek processor. They already have Dimensity 1000L phone in the market. So Oppo's processing algorithm should be good enough to utilize the Mediatek chip close to it's full potential.
One more reason to support my all previous statements, look at Reno3 China version (Dimensity 1000L) and Reno3 Pro China version (SD 765G).
Also Look at Realme 6 and 6 Pro with G90T and SD 720G respectively. Both company went for Snapdragon on their Pro model. People may say it is because of Mediatek SOC costs less than Snapdragon, but the thing is Snapdragon SOC has superior ISP and DSP. So despite Mediatek Dimensity 1000L being more powerful than SD 765G, Pro model didn't use Mediatek chip.
The issue with Mediatek is their RnD. They just don't have similar budget as Qualcomm. Mediatek seems to be concentrating more on performance and heating problems, improving ISP and DSP is not yet the main priority. Dimensity is the result of that which I quite like it but its camera features while good enough for majority of people (including me) still not up to par with SD 855+ .
007roh, 16 Mar 2020I don't think Mediatek has mentioned the MFNR maximun resolution on there spec list. So I doub... moreIt's true...
Night shots are very noisy on Redmi Note 8 Pro...
But strangely, you will get far less noise in HDR (but still some) than in night mode
I think software doesn't use properly hardware...
All brands developed their softwares on Qualcomm's for years...
You can see the same with custom ROM developement. Sources are there but devs still refuse to work on.
Anonymous, 15 Mar 2020He's right on some parts...you're on some others.
SD855+ hasn't MFNR and ZSL over 48MP...
P9... moreI don't think Mediatek has mentioned the MFNR maximun resolution on there spec list. So I doubt it goes upto 64MP. Even if it does the end result isn't exceptional (Source: GSMArena's Reno3 Pro night shot review).
Reno 3 Pro's night shots have lots of noise and overall the pictures are soft. So I doubt P95's AI NR is of any use. Yes, Oppo can tweak there software algorithm to get decent night shot, but SOC's NR is useless for the most part.
Umidigi has multiple camera with higher resolution camera than stated on the P60's spec sheet ?. I am assuming this is what you are trying to say. It can be done with any SOC with reduced features. Mi Note 10 used 108MP in a penta camera setup with SD 730G.
X The point I am trying to make is Qualcomm's ISP is superior to Mediatek's ISP. P95 may have more features on paper and it may be useful in some scenarios. But SD 730G will take equally good photos and videos if not better despite having only dual core ISP compared to P95's triple core. In simple words its a quality vs quantity scenario.
Plus you also get more performance and efficiency with SD 730G over P95. Reno3 Pro made a bad choice by going with P95.
About Dimensity series, I agree they are nice SOC and more phones should use them over the 7 series Snapdragon.
007roh, 03 Mar 2020Can't believe he actually said P95 is comparable to SD 855+ in camera department. Now I feel l... moreHe's right on some parts...you're on some others.
SD855+ hasn't MFNR and ZSL over 48MP...
P95 has up to 64MP...it's even AI Noise Reduction.
I think it's possible to go over 64MP without these features.
You've got for exemple Umidigi X with Helio P60 and 48MP even if Helio P60's datasheet says it's limited to 32MP...with probably not a good software.
Qualcomm gives some numbers without features.
Mediatek gives only numbers with features.
On the other side P95 can't encode 4k/h265 for exemple (even if Mediatek proposed h265 encoding before Qualcomm - on mt6595 when SD805 hasn't)
Nevertheless, I think P95 can be a good choice for a mid-range photophone.
Dimensity 800, 1000, 1000L has some very interessant features too...
Such as 4k/HDR (3 exposures) recording...probably more interessant than 8k
007roh, 03 Mar 2020Can't believe he actually said P95 is comparable to SD 855+ in camera department. Now I feel l... moreYep, we tried our best, we gave him facts, he called them opinions.
Also, I just checked his profile, and he says unlogical things even on his other posts.
Shadocx, 03 Mar 2020It's useless to keep arguing with this guy, he's a blind Mediatek fanboy.Can't believe he actually said P95 is comparable to SD 855+ in camera department. Now I feel like an idi*t for arguing with him for so long over SD 730G...
Anyways we tried our best, but logical thinking is clearly not his forte.
Severe case of fanboyism I guess..
007roh, 03 Mar 2020Wow P95 AI score is almost double of SD 730G that is impressive. Sooo... what does that better... moreI told u that p95 is camera soc. U can argue all day,and even when I put u the profe u said,no,it's not better. And yes,p95 can compete with 855+ in camera department. I will end conversation here. Competition is always good, and if u want to support one player,that is your choice. Support for mtk and all other makers.
Alex 94, 03 Mar 2020AI Benchmark website: Xiaomi Mi Note 10 with SD730G – 14819 -- Oppo Reno Z with Mediatek Heli... moreWow P95 AI score is almost double of SD 730G that is impressive. Sooo... what does that better AI score translates into ? Just how much and what kind of advantage does better AI gives to P95 over 730G ?.
Having said that I don't really wanna get into AI argument because both companies don't take the same approach in the implementation of AI on their SOC. SD 855+ gets around 33000 score only and Helio P90 has 26000 so Helio P95 will be around 28000 I assume. But does that mean Helio P95 can be as good as SD 855+ ? I don't think so.
All these Augmented Reality feature on P95, what are the use of them ? I don't see these kind of features even on Qualcomm's flagship processors and people don't seem to complain. So it's clearly not a very useful feature to most people. Also ARCore is supported on many phones so what's the need for these AR features on Mediatek ?
The remaining thing like noise reduction low light photography, depth sensing engine and multiple object and scene identification are all there on SD 730G. Also SD 730G supports single camera up to 192MP ( without zero shutter lag and MFNR though) and slow motion up to 960 FPS, P95 on the other hand supports 64MP single camera and 480 FPS slow motion only.
P95 does have some extra feature but it doesn't do anything better than SD 730G as far as I can tell. But SD 730G has significantly more performance and is efficient as well which will come into play when the phone starts slowing down after a year or so and battery backup starts degrading.
So my question still stands what does Helio P95 equipped phone does better that phones with SD 730G cannot do ?
Alex 94, 03 Mar 2020I told u,I don't care for your opinion. Why u still writing?! But it's not my opinion, it's a fact, there you go for the Mi Note 10 specifications: https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_mi_note_10-9936.php as you can see it's clearly written 108 MP, it's not my opinion.
And there you go for the review: https://www.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_mi_note_10-review-2020p4.php the Mi 9 Lite is listed and has a SD 710.
My opinion? I don't work for GSM Arena, why are you acting like I wrote their review.
007roh, 03 Mar 2020You say difference between A75 and A76 is not much, yet the P95 is around 30-40% slower than 7... moreAI Benchmark website: Xiaomi Mi Note 10 with SD730G – 14819 -- Oppo Reno Z with Mediatek Helio P90 – 26738. When u like benchmark,read this numbers. Now p95. Ai capabilities: Full body avatar AR, 3D pose tracking, 5 person human pose tracking, multiple object and scene identification, ai depth engine, at/Mr acceleration, ai nr low light photography. What of this have sd 730g?! Nothing.
Alex 94, 02 Mar 2020I dont care for benchmarks. Camera support is another thing. U said that slow image proces is ... moreSo, this is still going on? The SD 730G inside the Mi Note 10 is supporting a 108 MP camera sensor, can the Mediatek P95 do this?
Going from SD 710(Cortex-A75@2.2 Ghz) to SD 730(Cortex-A76@2.2 Ghz), there is about 35% better performance in single core and about 20% better performance in multi core. (Source: Geekbench 5)
If that makes little difference to you, then I can't help you...
Alex 94, 02 Mar 2020I dont care for benchmarks. Camera support is another thing. U said that slow image proces is ... moreYou say difference between A75 and A76 is not much, yet the P95 is around 30-40% slower than 730G.
Even in camera department 730G is ahead of P95.
Have you compared the camera specs of both chips ?What is better in P95 that SD 730G doesn't have ?
730G is capable of taking equally good pictures and at the same time it's more powerful than mediocre P95.
As for image processing speed this is the last time I am gonna say, camera do affect the image processing speed. 108 MP camera phone will take more time to process the image compared to a 48MP camera phone. So what point are you trying to make ?
007roh, 02 Mar 2020I never said slow image processing is due to only camera, don't change my words. I simply said... moreI dont care for benchmarks. Camera support is another thing. U said that slow image proces is cause of camera.. Read again your comment. p95 is weaker in every aspect compared to 730g except to camera support.Why? Cause p95 it made for great budget camera experience. And again,diference betwen a75 and a76 is very little.,and benchmark score doesnt mean nothing in camera department.
What The F Advertising. The Ads video showing 108 MP.