Gromov, 26 Mar 2020IP68 is far from overrated, it makes it so much easier to wash the phone when you wash your hands. There is a difference between IP rating and the ability of a phone to be water resistant, the OnePlus 6 and OnePlus 7 (even the one with the pop up) proved to be more than water resistant enough to be put underwater.
That's why IP68 is overrated, because it is only an official thing, it doesn't mean anything, you can still have a IP68 phone with a defect and fry it by putting it under water and non IP rated phones easily surviving several minutes immersed, like the MI 9T.
So loosing fullscreen + privacy isn't worth official IP rating when the phone is already water resistant.
AND even with IP rating, it is stupid to put your phone underwater anyway, it is like "not wearing your seatbelt because you have airbags anyway".
Jojo, 26 Mar 2020Under the screen front camera is future, but pop up is fine for now. Better than a notch or a ... moreDude, I explained why underdisplay camera are a stupid thing :
_They are costly.
_They are hard to make (not a single prototype with a good enough underdisplay camera for production have been made yet).
_The display get color and lighting level quality hit over the area where the camera is.
_The camera get a bad quality image which require lot of software correction to make it acceptable.
_It doesn't offer privacy, which is way more important than a fullscreen device.
_No one guarantee a good enough production unit will hit the market anytime soon, or at all actually.
_The display have integrity issue and is more fragile where the camera is, increasing the risk of breaking because of the mix of regular and see through display.
_Potentially more issues to come.
Remember how in the past peoples thought flying car would be the future, with a little logic you can understand how it is a stupid idea, aircraft such as airplanes and helicopters already exist and work well, it would be a hell to make regulation for flying car, cause lots of unnecessary accidents and will cost a lot.
Levitating cars using ground effect though IS a good idea, it would reduce a lot the roadkill of human and animals, won't be expensive, won't clash with aircraft and thanks to the third axis of freedom would allow to avoid dangers and reduce the number of potential accidents, but the driver SHOULDN'T control the height, maybe controlling a range of levels, but not the height by himself, and the vehicle should also have wheels and be ready to drop from several meters and absorb the shock.
Same thing peoples in the past imagined we would have buttons everywhere for everything, they didn't imagined touch display or graphic interfaces allowing to quickly select modes so that we don't need a button for each function.
And the same way, underdisplay camera is a stupid over hyped thing that peoples imagine as the ultimate thing, but the truth is, once it hit the market (if it ever do) and is accessible enough, most users won't see a real difference between underdisplay camera and pop up, except maybe the pop up could ironically prove more reliable and more durable while giving a better image quality, not degrading display quality and being much cheaper.
Because at the end of the day, both do the EXACT same effect of fullscreen, so it is not like if the underdisplay camera is anywhere superior, if anything, it is the inferior tech, but because it is hyped and seem incredible, peoples imagine it will be so much better than pop up, sorry but it won't be.
Demongornot, 25 Mar 2020Dude, literally two comment below your I explained that pop up can be made better, cheaper and... moreIP68 is far from overrated, it makes it so much easier to wash the phone when you wash your hands.
Demongornot, 25 Mar 2020Pop up could and should be the future. Yes it is mechanic, and then what ? You'll throw awa... moreUnder the screen front camera is future, but pop up is fine for now. Better than a notch or a punch hole and it was the main reason the 7 Pro sold so well.
Having owning a OnePlus 7 pro which is a great phone btw but the new note 20 will my next phone as the OnePlus 8 pro doesn’t interest me one bit... sorry OnePlus, I’m jumping ship..
Anonymous, 25 Mar 2020They took away pop up for IP68 on 8 Pro. Dude, literally two comment below your I explained that pop up can be made better, cheaper and waterproof at the same time, and also that IP68 is anyway overrated and near useless.
They simply followed the stupid trend, that's why they did that, they could have put a small bezel on the top, the same size as the Meizu 16, way more peoples ask for and prefer bezels rather than punch hole or notch, and pop up was really appreciated and the phone already had really good water resistance considering it has a mechanical pop up.
Anonymous, 25 Mar 2020Same cam of find x2 pro.
48MPDid you even read the article?
It's the 64mp IMX 686.
OnePlus always copies the R/Reno series.
Demongornot, 25 Mar 2020Pop up could and should be the future. Yes it is mechanic, and then what ? You'll throw awa... moreCouldn't agree more. Was looking forward to the 8 pro, and my daughter was looking forward to my 7 pro. This feels like a step back. The phone 7 pro is already RIDICULOUSLY fast. Like the idea of wireless charging, if it is actually true. Aside from that, not very exciting news.
I love how EVERY phone leak has the pictures taken on a 2001 Nokia potato camera. Surely someone can take a hi-res photo?
Anonymous, 25 Mar 2020Pop up is not the future. Is a mechanical part. Under display camera is the future. Oneplus r... morePop up could and should be the future.
Yes it is mechanic, and then what ? You'll throw away everything which is mechanical ?
Start by trowing away your car, then your lungs, your heart, and all your muscles.
There is MANY mechanical things which are far superior to electronic alternatives.
And guess what, your display, mostly if it is Oled have wear, your CPU and memory have wear and your battery have wear, even when you aren't using it.
Optical zoom and optical stabilisation are far superior over numerical ones, and the same way as your vibration motor in your phone, they may be the last elements to actually fail.
There is this stupid war against mechanical components for fear of wear and failure while electronic have the same wear, and sometime even more, and are as likely to fail.
What is more reliable, robust and durable ?
The 50+ years old cars (the first ones still operate) that still drive like new and who were 100% mechanical, or the modern one with way less moving parts but the essential and lot of electronic who barely last 10 years ?
Pop up flash module is on a lot of pro camera, and no one complain about it, quite the opposite.
Even more, the cupola on the International Space Station have 7 shutters which can be opened and closed, one would think they simply are electrically commended right ?
False, they are mechanical, they use a complex seal that allow a mechanical handle to manually operate them.
So if mechanical is good enough for the fricking International Space Station where air is really important and reliability should be at its best, it is for smartphone really secondary and non critical front camera.
Underdisplay camera are a stupid solution, why does astronomers placed telescopes on the driest and highest point on earth, and when they can literally in space, rather than through a layer of cloud, pollution, humidity, thick air and light source ?
Pop up are cheap, simple, reliable, quick, they last long, they don't cause any display or camera issues, the underdisplay is the most expensive thing modern smartphone industry waste money on, it is so hard to make that after millions spent and years of try and various prototypes, it is still not good enough for dropping it in the commerce, and when it will be released it will be really expensive, not only because of all the RnD cost that need to be compensated, but also because it require complex display and sensor, a sensor extremely sensitive which still require tons of AI treatment to compensate the fact it look through a display, the image will be meh quality and the RAW if they ever lets it available will have a really bad quality, the display also loose quality, you can see the lens through the display, meaning the display quality is clearly affecter over the camera, but you can only poorly see it, meaning the image the sensor will get is quite bad.
So yeah, underdisplay camera = Really expensive, sensitive fragile tech, image degradation for both display and camera, and actually no one guarantee that a working one will hit the market anytime soon, it could be 5 years away, all that for a disappointing tech with almost no room for improvement.
The pop up can be seriously improved and upgraded, as I said in the comment, using magnetic linear actuators will make it faster, more reliable, remove all mechanical and moving part but the pop up itself, and would make it 100% waterproof as the module would be hosted inside a compartment where only a sealed pass through for the data/power flat cable, the magnets and electromagnets will do the rest without requiring any physical opening.
IP rating is overrated anyway as the OnePlus 7(t) Pro and he MI 9T (Pro) proved to be highly capable of handling water for more than enough so that any accidental drop in water or rain won't damage it, and most companies warranty don't cover water damage, this include LG which not only have IP68 rating, but also MIL-STD-810G military standard.
IP rating is just a gimmick used as a selling point rather than real feature.
By the way, we often say "waterproof" by language abuse, but smartphone (except extreme rugged ones) aren't waterproof, they are water resistant, and that's a huge difference.
So except if you are looking for a submarine smartphone (and tough luck finding one here) the pop up is more than enough.
But still if it is your thing, my simple and better idea of magnetic linear actuator allow IP68 and MIL-STD-810G rating.
Also pop give you something new that no other solution (bezel, notch, punch hole and underdisplay camera) give you : Privacy !
And each day there is a news about privacy breach somewhere, guess what will be the most valuable thing an individual with internet access will have in the future ?
Yes, privacy, so yes, pop up SHOULD definitely be the future.
Underdisplay camera isn't a miracle solution, it have the same goal as the pop up, allowing to have true fullscreen smartphone, but one is :
Reliable, durable, known, cheap and easy to implement, known and proved to work without any drawback.
While the other have :
Unknown durability and reliability, is really expensive and still not faisable, haven't shown all its potential drawbacks and yet we already know image quality in both camera and display suffer from it and a lot of sensors/tech aren't compatible with it or do but with lesser efficiency.
So what I see is an already working solution that peoples are simply afraid of for no real reasons (finding any relevant number of pop up failure report is a challenge), and an over hyped one that is actually the lesser solution but for some reasons is considered as the pinacle of all possible solutions.
If you want an alternative to pop up, there is the idea of smartphone with a second display on the back that remove the need for any front camera, like the ZTE nubia Z20, it can have more advantages than drawbacks if done properly :
One Oled on the front and one LCD on the back which allow to have the advantages of both display type, and the back display capacitive tactile can integrate a wireless capacitive charging and NFC antenna if done properly.
But peoples also complain about that, yet they want foldable smartphones with both mechanical wear and two displays...
The other solution is, in the future, when wearable will reach a really advanced level, with contact lenses capable of displaying an image from a nearby device, will allow you to see what your camera see, meaning no more need for front camera.
But this isn't for tomorrow.
Meanwhile the pop up IS the best solution we have.
Emeline Shaw, 25 Mar 2020Seems like every manufacturer so far in 2020 has failed miserably at delivering a good smartph... moreNote 20+ will come with Snapdragon 865. I think It's good that they are ditching Exynos for that one. Also they can refine their mistakes and fix bugs on the existing S20 lineup so that they don't end up on the Note 20 series.
Seems like every manufacturer so far in 2020 has failed miserably at delivering a good smartphone - either it's sh*tty batteries, screens, bugged cameras, half-baked software, ugly notches, cut-out, low display res or astronomical prices.. Oh my God..
Now there's only iPhone 12 series and Note 20+ left.. The Mate 40 Pro will mess up big time as well with a sh*tty display, camera tech and ugly-ass cut-out..
Apple will probably also mess up with a sh*tty battery, an astronomical price and a sh*tty camera from the past..
The only little hope left is the Note 20+ which hopefully doesn't mess up too..
Demongornot, 25 Mar 2020Removing the pop up camera was a stupid choice, the pop up is the best solution for fullscreen... morePop up is not the future. Is a mechanical part. Under display camera is the future. Oneplus removed the pop up camera and place it in a punch hole mostly for official IP rating and bringing something new for Oneplus phones. I have MI9T which i love it, but i dont see my future phone having a pop up any day now.
Mediatek sux, 25 Mar 2020But why would oems use an expensive solution for no apparent reason? Wouldnt they be looking t... moreBut that's the thing, my magnetic linear actuator idea (well its my idea to use it for pop up, the actuator isn't my idea obviously) cost close to nothing, it is just a pop up module with a pair of magnets (for a single camera, a little more for a larger module) and flat and quite cheap magnetic coils in its sides, it is cheaper than the actual screw + motor design, take less space, have only a single moving part and virtually no wear, can be made totally isolated meaning IP68 compatible, is really fast, and is way less susceptible to failure than the mechanical one (which is still really robust).
The Underdisplay camera IS expensive, it reduce image quality of both camera and display, require extremely sensitive tech and tons of software correction.
Pop up is really easy to make, you don't really need that much RnD, Underdisplay camera on the other hand have seen millions spent on it and after years of prototypes, none are consider good enough for commercialization...
But because there is a hype around it and peoples are afraid of pop up for false reasons, they choose the hard to implement, lesser effective and more expensive option...