mithril2001, 23 Apr 2020from front look almost the same as my pocophone F1 Pocophone looks like it
Apple please stop Mobile phone business, handover it to China, after jobs you forgot to innovation.
Adoogle, 21 Apr 2020Quote, "Price will probs hike a little..."
Noooooo, you don't say.Woah, easy there pal.
No need to get all flustered up.
Y'ain't gotta buy it if y'ain't like it.
from front look almost the same as my pocophone F1
Anonymous, 22 Apr 2020are you nuts even CIA can not crack ios, its the most secure system. even samsung CEO uses apple Ios can be hacked with sjngle sms 😅 most secure who told this lies ios is not secure how peoppe think stop drink cool apple aid
Anonymous, 22 Apr 2020How come you claimed his argument (Mikexx) was wrong and claimed your argument is right? even ... moreBut of course you know better than me and just because you say so, you are right ?
You talked about many peoples disagreeing because they DISLIKE something, and flat Earth way to argument for their theory, the funny part is that this is EXACTLY how, when the Earth was discovered and announced to be round peoples reacted :
"The many believe it isn't the case, so it isn't the case" does it proved to be right because peoples BELIEVED it to be true ?
YES this is based on reality :
iOS doesn't rely on the top area (status area) much while Android do heavily, putting something up there, regardless of it feel similar to you, is CLEARLY DIFFERENT because of how it is implemented, Apple DIDN'T do anything that darken this area, you need to download app and do manipulation to archive this.
MANY peoples also prefer bezel over punch hole or notch, and yes I hate them, I also do defend things I dislike such as back and side placed fingerprinting scanners.
By the way, as you said, there are solutions :
Pop up, sliders and other similar solutions, yet peoples react really badly to pop up (the most popular and common of those solutions)...
They say the pop up is slow, is fragile, add failure point, have wear, is mechanical moving part, allow water, dirt and dust to get in, but guess what, the same as you and all the person you claim to be right because they have the same opinion as your, they are totally next to the reality :
Pop up on phone like the OnePlus 7(t) Pro offer the SAME unlocking time with face recognition than other phones of the same period of the year, almost no one ever reported any failures of a pop up mechanism, there are literally way more post about "how bad the pop up is" than any real life exemples, post and persons about it, and most of the pop up haters didn't even see a single on in their own life, let alone experience it.
There are video that show and prove it doesn't even have issue with water, yet peoples will always try to find theoretical and fictional arguments which simply doesn't add up with the plain truth which is displayed (the same person who also quote video from the same person as exemple of something by the way, but because they don't like pop up and it doesn't get in their direction, "of course it is rigged, of course it doesn't apply to the reality, of course it is fake").
The pop up DO allow for full uninterrupted display and IS a solution for this that doesn't have any real life flaw or issues, and most who have a phone with one are satisfied.
Yet, peoples are against it, only saying continuously their counterarguments that apply only in theory but not at all in real life and have been proven to not hold past theory.
So YES I do say facts based on reality : "iOS isn't affected the same way as Android by the notch" and you are taking an emotional approach where you only argument is "but peoples think/consider that".
What peoples think or consider, exactly like it doesn't work at all with the pop up, isn't a fact, a cold heart truth that can be applied by A+B logic.
And this is exactly why I took tires and hybrid as an example, not to say "one is better because it is one an F1" but simply "it is not because they look the same that they are the same".
And indeed Apple's notch do little arm, it was actually well received by everyone who experienced it first hand and wasn't hated, only when the Android one came, it was hated, because it doesn't work well on Android, if you want a more logic example, an RGB system on an audio headset is a good/not bad idea, but it would be a terribly bad idea on a VR headset, even though we talk about two thing who got in the head and have similar thing "RGB", one allow peoples during life streaming, video, LAN and other to look cool, the other will make distracting light on your skin and break your VR experience with what light can get your attention by shining off your skin.
Here it is the same, yes, a "notch" as a vertical portion of the display removed in order to make space for sensor, is the same regardless on iOS or on Android, and that's exactly why I talked about hybrid cars, the same car (so you don't think I talked about the Prius to give off a bad image compared to an Hypercar), one with switching motor for fuel economy and the other with dual mode allowing for power, both are hybrid, but their implementation are totally different, same with a turboprop and a turbofan, both are turbine but they are radically different, not to say one is better, you wouldn't want a turboprop on a jet fighter, but you wouldn't want a turbofan on an helicopter.
So AGAIN, regardless if I, you, the majority or the pope do like it or not, this is FACT AND REALITY that :
iOS notch is made as a bezel with display on the side, literally the top of iOS display is made for status icons and was never encountering lack of space, still they adapted the status icon so they fit with this design (though, as I said, improvement could still be done), meaning it is basically removing the status bar from the display and putting it on the bezel equivalent, they even changed the aspect ratio from 16:9 for something taller which mean the notch can't possibly get in the way of anything that used the full display of previous iPhone models as there is more room after removing the notch.
They did all that while putting many sensors they didn't had before (Face ID started with the iPhone X which is the first to have a notch) meaning they tried to make it as densely packed as possible.
All that aren't my opinion, those are facts, the status bar, how they changed it on iPhone X, different aspect ratio, appearance of Face ID, all those are FACTS that regardless how anyone thing about it, are still FACTS !
Android notch is just a copy of the Apple one without any regard on how it affect anything, the top is both populated by notifications AND status icons, there already was a lack of space, with all the social media (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Reddit, just to quote the most popular), emails (Gmail, Outlook), all the banking, system, news, antivirus, etc, on the other side there are many status icons like battery, wifi, Bluetooth, single or multi sim data, NFC, VPN, etc.
The lack of space is a true thing, which is why a new Android 10 features is to put some app's notification as a secondary notification area.
Yet, despite that, Android phone maker did simply copy the same thing Apple did without doing anything to compensate, the notch literally reduced considerably the number of things you could display, teardrop notch still do it and even punch hole still affect it, and they did that only to host really FEW sensors, which, by reducing the notch size, literally meant that anything else than a camera disappeared, now there are only camera and so tiny and hidden variant of ambiant light and proximity sensor that they doesn't even work well, just to keep this trend.
All that are still facts, not my opinion.
And that's why both notch are completely different, one is adapted and the OS was made to work with it while it give amazing sensor density.
The other was throw there and Google was forced to fix it even if it didn't changed prior to Android 10 that it still took space the notification/statut bar was using, all that for finally reducing the number of available front sensors and not hosting anything more than a camera (no form of facial recognition sensor ever came with it while it was implemented at first on Android, only latter.
Also I hate Apple notch too, I just say it was a really well thought thing and while improvements could be done, it was still a really good idea, I still hate both Android and Apple notch, I just say that both are different and Apple's notch has a REASON to exist, while Android phone makers should have find their own equivalent.
AnonD-909757, 22 Apr 2020Well yes, except that actually HIS argument was wrong (I answered about it) and mine was corre... moreHow come you claimed his argument (Mikexx) was wrong and claimed your argument is right? even the review here (and other reviews) also perceived the same with him. That alone confused me with whatever your arguments before. His (Mike's) argument wasnt just theoretical since a lot of people also thinking or feel the same, means his theory are provenly applied in reality, and its solid-hard-evidence based on the facts while your whole wall of text arguments are literally theoretical things. Dont twisting facts here.
since the beginning you failed to grasp the real problem here, so you are using your own subjective opinion analysing all of these then make biased conclusion which is based purely from your own thinking then claimed it as facts. Thats why a lot of people are throwing anti-thesis here but some of them are implying relatively same opinion, while you are the only one different, that's because although they are using their own experience but seems similar to each other because using common experience, thats what we called the real facts which based on real experience and lots of them experienced the same way. Your whole arguments and logic are completely reversed and full of subjectivity and biased no matter you backed it up with links to prove your arguments using your own very subjective opinions which is very biased (its proved because so many disagree with you) the more you defending it, the more nonsense it will become as people will only find more flaws on your arguments to criticized, and then you claimed it as valid argument based on reality and facts, please re-recheck again, face the facts that a lot of people disagree with you but those people only using arguments based on their common sense which is more objective. Your defense repeatedly using term 'based on facts and reality' but almost no one agree with you nor perceived the same as you, its strongly indicates that you are delusional thinking that you are the only one right. You sounds like flat earthers who always trying to prove their theory with convincing facts and reality.
lets see here, the real cause of implementation of notch is nothing more than to create 'bezelless' phone which now become the trend of smartphone here. People now prefer bezelless phone or phone without any bezel, even a slight bezel less than 5mm now people reacts like "..eww, ugly chin/forehead/bezel" or "my eyes hurts seeing those bezel" (its based on facts, a lot of people comments like this on gsma). That's why phones comes with bezelles display, but creating this bezelless phone coming with another problems to tackle, since its bezelless now how they put these camera and/or sensors when there are no space left because this bezelless phone? Then, there come notch/tear drop/small notch or hole within the display area to compensate it at the cost of obstructing the view experience because no space left anymore outside border and right now no technology to hide it under the display like underdisplay fingerprint reader. Some manufacturer comes with other solution: hiding it with sliding/flip mechanism like vivo/oppo, asus or samsung A80.
Its funny how you claimed apple notch is useful while android's notch is useless or using race tires analogy or Prius-vs-McLaren analogy which doesnt add at all, to me even the android notch serve its real purpose here: for placing front camera and or other sensors etc. We could said its useless if the notch itself doesnt comes with any purpose if no camera(s) or other sensors placed there. So thats why I said a notch is a notch, a small area within display area which caused obstruction to our viewing area. So, to compensate this notch, apple and other smartphone manufacturers (not android google, because the implementation of notch first coming from their phone manufacturers like samsung/vivo/oppo etc, not from google android itself) customizing their os ui giving solutions to make sure (more appropriately, compensate) the viewing experience not obstructed with this notch existence like rendering black on affected space where the notch/hole are, put black background, disable the area, reducing width when watching movies on landscape mode, or relocating notifications and icons, etc.. what's left here is, how you perceived it, its a matter of personal preference whether you liked it or not, but it still serve purpose, dont use pure emotional saying android notch is useless backed up with Prius-VS-McLaren analogy.
V10 concept is good, using separate display for icons, but they abandon it, the reason is no matter how you look it, its essentially not differ from other phones having notch on forehead then put black bar/reduce width when watching movies on landscape, and at some points, to some people it seems huge bezel/huge forehead and some people are 'allergic' to this bezel thing. So thats why they also move to notch style as its more seamless design and creating less obstructive as much as possible.
lets quote your comments, you said:
"..and your is pure emotional, "you hate the notch so the notch shouldn't exist and argument for its existence are therefor wrong"...
Are you delusional? I never said that, I only said "a notch is still a notch", i dont curse nor hate it, I use your own words here, dont use your pure emotional here.. The only person who use pure emotional comment are you, do you forget how you hated the punch hole and calling it pukehole? notch, punch hole, teardrop notch are essentially the same: a space to put camera and other sensors within display, the difference is how they (manufacturer) deliver/implemented it using other shapes.
If people read all of your so-called arguments based-on-reality-and-facts (wall of text) people will found it amusing and a some points there are a lot of things that completely the opposite there between your arguments with your other previous arguments..
And there's something wrong with your 'scientific method' claiming your arguments as the right one which you claimed as based on facts and reality as to other people its fully subjective and biased where i see a lot of people are using simple yet objective opinions which based on common experience/common sense (or more appropriately called based on reality and facts) to counter your arguments.
AnonD-888522, 22 Apr 2020ahahahaha..care to prove this theory? Have you ever used an iPhone with a FaceID? The only oth... moreActually this can be done on a small bezel, but nowaday bezel have became the enemy as everyone is obsessed by fulldisplay phones, even if it mean putting a hole in the display to compensate for not having space left for the camera, most peoples would consider having a bezel for 3D facial recognition on Android or Apple as an unacceptable thing.
Pop up can allow for such thing, the Oppo Find X with his slider/pop up hybrid is a practical example of this, slider phones such as the Lenovo Z5 Pro, but peoples are against pop up/slider by fear of fragility while the reality showed that they are extremely robust and reliable.
Another solution would be to have no front sensors except ambiant light and proximity (which can be put inside many spots such as the border, extremely thin bezel or the corners) and have all sensors on the back, with or without a secondary display on the back.
Selfies can easily be done without display, after all many peoples did selfies back in the day of camera with films and they couldn't see themselves nor had unlimited number of takes, yet it worked perfectly, only face call or putting real time filters (like Snapchat) would be an issue, but even there a simple foldable arm with a mirror which would make the main/portrait camera on the back able to see the user who would be able to use both display and camera on him at the same time would be a better fix.
With sensors for 3D facial recognition on the back, you only need to twist your wrist in order to unlock your phone, that's easy and quite fluid to just switch from regular holding the phone in your palm to turn your hand around so your phone and hand's back face you, your phone will automatically be in a portrait orientation and the gyros can easily register that and wake Face ID up.
I explain that because some think you would need to turn your phone around in your hand (which would indeed be annoying) rather than just turning your wrist around.
All the 3D facial recognition sensor on the back would also allow for more information gathered for the AI when taking a picture, if well done, additional depth and IR data can be quite useful to get better picture quality.
Anonymous, 22 Apr 2020are you nuts even CIA can not crack ios, its the most secure system. even samsung CEO uses apple
That's what you're supposed to believe. In fact, not long ago some fatties were watching people's photos and they were regular Joes like yourself.
No system is secured and that's fine as long as we're protected from threats.
I don't mind someone watching my deek pics hahaha
Anonymous, 22 Apr 2020are you nuts even CIA can not crack ios, its the most secure system. even samsung CEO uses apple
Actually, this is more a publicity stunt and propaganda thing than a real problem.
The Patriot Act force EVERY US based compagnies to have backdoor to allow government agencies to have access to any device, this isn't a complot theory or crazy mumble, that's literally the law.
The government DO have multiple means to access what is inside your phone regardless what operating system or brand you have.
From simply using the face of the dead person to doing a 3D print of said face (which proved to be able to get through Face ID) or simply physically accessing the memory chip and reading its content, because this is not file encryption which would stop CIA.
It is convenient for both Apple as it is a great publicity stunt to showcase how secure they are (while this isn't the case) and also make the device appear on news giving free ads, and for the government which REALLY want access to user's data, this is great as it give user the false impression that they can use the device without worrying about anything, and this is for any agency a good thing that terrorists and other "national security threats" think everything they leave in their phone is safe and no one have access to.
You can't really believe that CIA or NSA doesn't have the means to access data in a phone, they do way more complicated stuff than that, example, there are official documents showing how from your home electric network they can see what is in your display because of the electromagnetic interference a monitor do, from a simple microphone they can know what you type on your keyboard because each key have an identifiable sound, sometime they can even get the tiny electric buzz each key press do...
And those aren't just theory, they did got exploited in real life :
Cracking an iPhone is probably easy for them.
Those news might come as a surprise to you, but really, don't trust any device even if "officially" the government act like if they can't get access to them, because that's probably what they rely the most on.
Just having a beer, 22 Apr 2020May be that Android users quite dont care about FaceID? I personally am happy with fingerprint... moreExactly, I used iPhone 11 and didn't like the Face ID and missed my wonderful fingerprint sensor. Very often it did not work or took longer. Especially now that we use masks, I always had to input the secret number.
Adoogle, 21 Apr 2020Quote, "Remember, Android = good, Apple = bad and that's all there is to it."
Android ? Goo... moreHe was answering to me who was shocked how peoples were literally raging against my explanation of the difference of Android and iOS based notch and tried to fight it without any arguments, simply because they are Apple haters.
And this is sadly true, a lot of peoples (not just here) don't care about facts or anything else, they just hate Apple, he was sarcastically stating what those peoples think, "whatever Apple do is bad and whatever Android do is good", but he wasn't implying that this is the case.
Personally I am too accustom to the Android ecosystem and I think Apple have too much proprietary software and hardware to just buy an iPhone without the whole Apple ecosystem around it, I wouldn't be comfortable with that, but that's just my opinion, I am not against Apple or Android, I recognize every good things both Google's Android and the manufacturers around it and Apple do properly.
I mean, why hating something we don't have to use ?
Just having a beer, 22 Apr 2020May be that Android users quite dont care about FaceID? I personally am happy with fingerprint... moreI was initially like you, then I tried my OnePlus 6t's face unlock and now I really don't want anything else, this is so convenient and fluid to just press a button and having the phone unlocking without doing anything else.
But more importantly, having only ONE biometric is a bad idea, look at how the Google Pixel 4 family when it had facial recognition issues forced its users to revert to way less secure unlocking methods, or when the Samsung S10, Note10 and S20 had issue with the Qualcomm 3D Sonic.
Having two unlocking method allow both for each user to choose what type he want to use, but also having a backup.
And an even more important aspect is that we could combine both biometric method for accessing sensitive apps (bank, official documents etc).
And considering Android phone with 3D facial recognition had lots of success, well, users DO care about that.
Adoogle, 22 Apr 2020Quote, "I thought no status icon are really missing compared to previous version, after some r... moreWell, this is also the case on Android and would have probably be also the case on Windows Phone.
But yes, as the initiator of the notch, this is disappointing, mostly considering that there are solutions :
1) Make the status icons appear on two lines (the display around the notch is tall enough to accommodate this and still show icons larger than previous non notched phones like the iPhone 8).
2) Make the status icons appear both around the notch but also bellow it (as regular status bar).
3) Make the status icons basically changing to show all active ones with an option like choosing static icons on the left/right side and on the other side, icons which list all active icons.
4) Allow any combinaison of all of those 3 previous solutions.
5) Allowing to "disable" the notch which would push the status bar bellow the notch and act as if the display around it doesn't exist (reverting to a bezel).
Essen, 21 Apr 2020Dear friend, Face ID has nothing to do with a notch. Face ID can be implemented on a conventio... moreahahahaha..care to prove this theory? Have you ever used an iPhone with a FaceID? The only other phones that somehow resemble this tech is from Huawei & Google. Are they both notchless or with tiny bezels? Even the p40 pro+ has a massive pill shape to house their 3d scanner.
Anonymous, 22 Apr 2020Yes iOS is definitely something - outdated, functionally challenged, less secure out of the box. lol nothing credible left to say now must make up lies
Anonymous, 22 Apr 2020Yes iOS is definitely something - outdated, functionally challenged, less secure out of the box. are you nuts even CIA can not crack ios, its the most secure system. even samsung CEO uses apple
Love the Community, 22 Apr 2020Android people will never understand that the notch in Apple phones is there because it has st... moreMay be that Android users quite dont care about FaceID? I personally am happy with fingerprint sensor. I dont need to think "phone, illuminate my beautiful face so you can unlock" :)))
LilPhone, 21 Apr 2020Actually, I can't really say iPhones are that special, especially with some outdated specs (ex... moreYes iOS is definitely something - outdated, functionally challenged, less secure out of the box.
Anonymous, 21 Apr 2020Does you phone released in 2015 run the latest android OS? well the phone 6s is still being up... moreNobody cares about latest updates on Android.
The 5 year update system of iOS is a giant scam. You get latest features 5 years late on an average. Android is light years ahead of iOS in terms of functionality, customizability, security and ease of use. Android from 5 years back can do things iPhone can't.
The upcoming iOS 14 will finally get an app drawer and fully functional widgets, Lol these are things that existed on Android a decade back.
Plus with every subsequent update, your battery and cpu are deliberately slowed down by Apple (Yes, they are paying fines for this malpractice) whereby one is forced to upgrade after a few years.