Samath N8 808 owner, 23 Apr 2020I am not able to fully grasp the concept of liquid lens, but from the diagrams its about zoom ... moreSmartphone and proper cameras do not use the full potential of sensors.
1) processors cant extract whole power of sensors
2) many lenses cant resolve the whole resolution (cellphones have much inferior lenses, even compared to pocket cameras from 1998).
Image sensors have more power than ppl think.
Kuuba, 23 Apr 2020They claim to support 3 to 1 lossless zoom without upscale, but why they are using upscale wit... moreBecause their marketing is misleading. Quad Bayer sensors or Nona Bayer sensors have a different color filter array, which in most cases leads to much less detail than a traditional Bayer sensor with the same resolution. For example Xiaomi's 108 megapixel Quad Bayer sensor might be more comparable with an approximately 35 or 40 megapixel Bayer sensor.
Shui8, 23 Apr 2020At the moment the most logical sophisticated camera tech are on Vivo Apex 2020 prototype - htt... moreAsus Zoom had periscope with true zoom.
You cannot use a 1/1.5 for periscope unless you make a phone with like 18mm thickness.
Circle of the lens does not cover the while sensor, so inside the phone the space used is much more than external circle.
1/1.5" periscope would add at least maybe 10-12mm .
Kuuba, 23 Apr 2020They claim to support 3 to 1 lossless zoom without upscale, but why they are using upscale wit... moreBecause while the Nonacell sensor technically supports full resolution mode, the end result is quite horrendous due to artifacts from more aggressive array conversion even when compared to quad Bayer. And this process also severely increases the noise level hence it's better off using pure 2x digital zoom most of the time.
IMO they instead of Nona bayer they should've used a traditional bayer with pixel binning on software level I don't know if it will give comparable low light results but seeing LG G7 Super Bright mode it should be pretty good
"The Nokia still has larger pixels, though and was doing pixel binning before it was cool."
Totally wrong. The Nokia 808 didn't bin pixels. It downsampled them. Downsampling is nothing else than resizing an image. Pixel binning reads out multiple pixels together. Pixel binning reduces read noise because less pixels are read out independently, this has the disadvantage of a low resolution. Downsampling doesn't reduce read noise because all pixels are read out independently.
The Nokia 808 had a pixel size of 1.4 micrometer and it couldn't pixel bin. But regarding noise, pixel size is nearly irrelevant in perfect light conditions without shadows because read noise is irrelevant in good light conditions. In perfect light conditions without shadows it's also nearly irrelevant regarding noise whether it downsamples or whether it can bin pixels. So only in perfect light conditions without shadow regions the effective pixel size of a 808, if resized to 12.0 megapixels, would be 2.5 micrometer.
Samath N8 808 owner, 23 Apr 2020I am not able to fully grasp the concept of liquid lens, but from the diagrams its about zoom ... moreYup, liquid lens more onto rapidly focusing while remaining sharp, on a huge zoom range.
Well at least its one of the liquid technology lol.
Samath N8 808 owner, 23 Apr 2020IDEA... !!
Guys, in future, can we have liquid-fillable pixel chambers instead of fixed colou... moreAt the moment the most logical sophisticated camera tech are on Vivo Apex 2020 prototype - https://m.gsmarena.com/vivos_apex_2020_has_a_camera_in_the_display_and_a_zoom_periscope_on_the_back-news-41739.php
It has 2 fixed lens & 2 moving lens on its periscope camera (optically zoomed). If only they implement 28mm to 85mm optically, with sensor bigger than 1/1.5", I'll buy that camera phone with a heartbeat.
Shui8, 23 Apr 2020Huawei already patent the 'liquid lens' tech on a smartphone last year - https://mobile.twitte... moreI am not able to fully grasp the concept of liquid lens, but from the diagrams its about zoom capability.
But, my idea is about liquid SENSOR FILTER, not liquid lens. What I'm thinking just improves the sensor performance, it has got nothing to do with lens.
So, my idea is different from the Huawei one for sure.
"it covered how the 9-in-1 pixel binning (nonacell) helps the sensor capture twice as much light."
The sensor doesn't capture more light. One big pixel captures more light than one small pixel and that's only relevant in dark shadows or extreme low-light conditions.
Samath N8 808 owner, 23 Apr 2020IDEA... !!
Guys, in future, can we have liquid-fillable pixel chambers instead of fixed colou... moreHuawei already patent the 'liquid lens' tech on a smartphone last year - https://mobile.twitter.com/rodent950/status/1158370602195050497?lang=en
It supposed to be implement on Mate 30, but apparantly its not. Guess research still going on. I suspect on next P50.
Samsung S20ultra, 23 Apr 2020I own this S20 ultra. I paid 1400 dollars, and I can forgive the the not so great pictures of ... moreOf course the 100x digital zoom would be joke.
Final result is 108MP/10.000 . That is the MP quality you will get at this focal length.
Samath N8 808 owner, 23 Apr 2020IDEA... !!
Guys, in future, can we have liquid-fillable pixel chambers instead of fixed colou... moreHuawei already patent 'liquid lens' in smartphone camera, last year - https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/01/22/huawei-may-launch-a-triple-camera-phone-with-liquid-lens-technology-this-year/
Definitely research still going on before they launch the real thing. I suspect maybe on next P50.
I think the s20 Ultra is this year biggest bullshit & biggest TechDemo. When the tech takes off and the chipsets become more efficient in capturing 100+mpx photos we might gonna have great phones with great photo capabilities but currently, I don't really see the superiority of a nonacell 108 Mpx sensor compared to a quadbayer or to a similarly-sized traditional one. Of course, the info coming from the individual pixels are nice but it won't help that much as advertised.
Guys, in future, can we have liquid-fillable pixel chambers instead of fixed colour filters?
What I'm suggesting is that, each pixel chamber is transparent, that can be programmed to be filled with liquids of different colours, but one colour at a time for one pixel, either red, green (or yellow) and blue, or maybe remain empty for B&W pic.
The benefit will be that you will have one sensor that is conventional, quad bayer, nona bayer and maybe 16-bayer, all in one, for ultimate performance in all light conditions.
Which means you can choose a high detail 192MP image, or a 48MP quadbayer, or a 21MP nona bayer, or for ultra light, a 12 MP (16-bayer) low light pic.
Also, you can empty chambers completely, to choose black and white, and get immense performance in night mode, with all 192 million pixels, for DSLR class pic.
One challenge is to ensure liquid viscousity, and to manage the liquid's storage. Manual hydraulics will have to be used to pump liquid, but it will be barely 1 ml of total liquid.
Yes, challenges might be there, but is it the first time humanity faced challenges?
OR if everything else fails, we can just have same fixed chambers in a rotating format so we can choose different outlooks, but then its a moving part that must be 100% precise even years later, not even 99.9999%.
Please let me know what you think of the 2 ideas I shared...
Oooh the Great and Mighty Samsung pushed into Damage Control in a sad attempt to counter the review by the underdog crumb eating DxOmark.
My advice to Samsung, next time just pay your Lackey more money... Pride doesn't promote, media reviews does.
I don't see any benefit of nonabayer when compared to the same sensor with quadbayer. They are just losing resolution for nothing in return except smaller file sizes. Which is kind of ironic considering that Samsung is among the largest memory memory producers.
The video is more on marketing than it being informative IMO. The tech aside from the implementation on Nona-bayer and a bigger sensor were the only parts in which I could say an "advantage" but there are revolutionary technologies that were far more beneficial in implementation like dual-pixel AF (missing in HM1), stacked sensor DRAM, and now the 2x2 OCL which were mostly implemented in Sony sensors. Sony solves that actual problems while Samsung were just brute-forcing the pixels and sensor sizes, markets their cameras by the numbers (of their pixel and sensor size specifications) and now, another marketing videos to justify their HM1.
Fitbri, 23 Apr 2020Hmm, that 808 nokia pure-view has become legendary808 has sensor made by Toshiba.
In 2015, Toshiba sold their sensor business to Sony.
Low score on DxO has been revealed. Of course they need to work hard promoting how 'good' their camera are lol.
Seriously, if they maintain the sensor size, 64mp Quad Bayer binned to 16mp with Dual Pixel/Octa PD, results will be way higher in quality. Seems like more on numbers means better marketing for Samsung.