Samath N8 808 owner, 05 Jun 2020Massive internal space being consumed is a given, yes.
Maybe you mean a APS-H sensor which wo... moreWell, actually since my phone design is still the same height as the standard 2019/2020 flagship but is more a 16/10 display format, it is larger than the usual, and it take lot of internal space but not the way you imagine, plus my design is about 2 APS-H sensors (one handling the zoom and focus, the other taking a different zoom and focus level so the AI have massive amount of high quality data to gather and to have the ability to change focus on the fly after the picture is taken) and other sensors like all the 3D things for even more AI and 3D facial recognition.
But despite that, the internal space taken won't be too much, the internal space available would be a little narrower than the standard 6.5" smartphone, but being thicker, it would compensate.
And nope, I confirm it would use the full sensor area, the back of the phone would have a Front Element laying flat (no camera bump) on the centered top part of phone.
Imagine a Front Element as big as the "camera ring" of the Nokia 9 Preview :
Though I can't tell yet how exactly big it would be (inner, outer diameter of the ring formed by the Nokia 9 cameras, or even smaller or bigger).
So I really mean a big sensor used if full capabilities, and of course to archive the zoom and focus the sensor doesn't simply lies flat under the Front Element...
Sorry I can't just give away the exact way it work...
Nice to hear, ont thing to know about me is that I am on the autism spectrum, that's why I am an unusual person though no one figured it out by just talking to me online.
You may like to learn computer programming, this is pure logic, and the things you can do are only limited by your logic and imagination !
I am currently learning C# which come completing the list of languages I know, it is modern and powerful, I was initially all about VB.NET but there are so many specific things that lack answers online unlike C# that I switched.
But if you have enough time, try to learn about the basics of how computer works (transistors, logic gates, ALU, instruction set, registers, memory) then C for the pointers which are an important part of programming and teach you a lot about how programs really work, learning the bases of an assembly language like MASM or NASM would be a good idea too to learn what your code properly became once it is compiled.
You don't need to learn all those things in deep or extreme details, just enough to have a better understanding of how computer works.
Another thing you might really like is how awesome Artificial Neural Network and/or Genetic Algorithms work, not only you learn a lot about evolution in general, but you also quickly understand how all the modern AI work, because they are just advanced variant of that.
Something like "Genetic Algorithm 2D Car Thingy" (or "BoxCar 2D" for the original but it use Flash) which is a website that basically generate random 2D "cars" with physic that go over a terrain, a genetic algorithm is applied, in short, the car that goes the further over the rough terrain is the fittest individual, so itself and mutated variant (meaning some random changes) of it will replace the worse, and it repeat until you get better and better result up to a point you reach what is called the local maxima, which is where the current design can't be optimized further.
You can watch this video showing BoxCar 2D in action :
But you get way better understanding by testing it yourself.
The first cars are random and sometime disastrous, from cars with no wheels, wheels inside the car or car upside down, but then, those who go the furthest are considered the fittest to survive, they get a fitness score, after like 5 generations you get working result, and usually most Genetic Algo that doesn't handle something too complex reach really good results around the generation 50.
Note that the car aren't AI, the Genetic Algo is the intelligent part as it sort out what should be kept, but its content in this case isn't intelligent, it doesn't react to anything.
Then Artificial Neural networks are basically a simple system of "nodes", you have input, intermediate and output nodes, for example, you make a simple 2D entity that have a certain goal, like eating a certain element and avoiding another, the input nodes will be basic data about the external world, a little like if it had eyes and other sensory organs, the intermediary neurons do the magic and the output will for example control motion and other things the entity can do.
The thing is, neural network once you code them can't do anything, you can't get the perfect value by yourself at least not easily, it would be a heal of a challenge, so what happen is we put a genetic algorithm to them, basically the better they behave, the better they are fit and they will be selected and mutated until you reach a better result, you have many exemples of that, and they are awesome, here are some video links :
In this one you see cars (a different type) that using both Genetic Algo and Artificial Neural Network learn how to goes around a 2D track :
Here you see two basic 2D characters (dot) learning how to fight :
Here is a similar concept except that rather than fighting they need to gather food and water :
Here another car driving but this one show a visualisation of the top vehicle Neural Network :
Of course all that is the simplest form of AI, nowaday we have way more advanced AI, but despite the fancy names like Machine Learning or Deep Learning, those are the same model, way more advanced and complex, but it still work out of the same principle.
So when you heard your smartphone SoC have AI, it is basically that, they buy huge computer to train a neural network to do image recognition or picture optimisation (post processing) out on tons of images and they gave you their best variant, so in your SoC you have a specific part that will do the same type of work from a certain type of data than what they trained it to do, there is no "real" intelligence behind it, it is just like a fancy big chunk of math that have been tweaked to get the desired result from tons of different data.
Anyway, thanks for subscribing, I'll try to find an old program I did which is basically a "wall bounce calculator" thingy I did and upload it on my channel.
If I found them I'll do the same with one of my first VB.NET program which is a Pokeball bouncing on the display and a more advanced ball physic software I wanted to make but got lazy xD
Demongornot, 22 May 2020Yup, I'd take a 3x or 5x optical zoom without any digital zoom over 100x zoom anyday !
Take i... moreMassive internal space being consumed is a given, yes.
Maybe you mean a APS-H sensor which would utilise only a limited sensor area in the middle with a smaller mobile lens, but the lens itself can be replaced with a bigger one when need arises, is that what your idea is?
Not much I can deduce from the clue itself.
You seem like an alternate world version of me... I'm also like you in a lot of ways. I was an avid creator in my childhood, but due to parental pressure, had to take up Commerce subjects. Now, I'm a Professor in a college, in the department of Management.
But, Science is life... no two ways about it...
I subscribed to your channel by the way. Your work seems interesting.
Better for samsung they will save lot of money by inviting certain people.
But i bet their flagship wont get reduced price but increased.
Samath N8 808 owner, 22 May 2020Right, 100x zoom is not quite a feature to die for here... & Thanks for clarifying my doub... moreYup, I'd take a 3x or 5x optical zoom without any digital zoom over 100x zoom anyday !
Take it with a pinch of salt though, that's my analysis, there could be other reasons and I could be totally wrong, guessing "why/how" about things doesn't always give the intended explantations, you could accidentally deduce something that is more logical and matching all elements than what things really ares...
I said APS-H to not say Full Frames which I am sure can also be done, and I guarantee I see how to do it on a regular 9.5mm thick smartphone, no need for foldable design, though it would take massive internal space, I can't give up how it work as obviously no one thought about that yet, but I can give a single clue : Light doesn't interfere with itself.
Of course a larger and thicker phone (as I said, in a ±15cm tall smartphone, if you make it like 15mm thick and large enough to be a 16:10 ratio display (and the body matching it) it would be totally doable while having spare space.
The thicker the phone is, the better it would be obviously but it isn't like a Reflex so it can exist without the phone requiring to be as thick as the sensor's height, but the slimmer the phone, the more precise and complex optics will be required, the precision needed for the zoom and focus to work could well be exponential with how slim is the phone...
And nope, I am an inventor but I work for myself, I can visualise concept in my head, well certainly not as well as Nikola Tesla, but I am super quick at finding solutions though, I've always invented things and I never needed any prototype to get down to details, I'd admit that when I was younger my lack of knowledge made me believe that some techs I invented could work while actually I just didn't know...
Like that electromagnetic bomb I imagined that vas basically a closed laser where the light would accumulate and induce energy to make more light until it exponentially grow to a point where all the energy would break the enclosure, well, I was simply fooled by the idea of a box made of mirror where peoples think light would infinitely bounce inside and I didn't knew much about energy conservation or how light isn't physically bouncing but absorbed then re-emitted...
I also did fall for the pendulum rocket fallacy...Though I keep thinking that a rocket with a propulsion on the top, like any escape tower, and power/shape varying nozzles to account for altitude change, would be a good idea, as you could drop fuel tanks without loosing engines and make a lighter rocket at launch, plus the upper stage would have engines good enough for powered landing...but I digress...
I was a teen... xD
Now, I have an excellent track record at envisioning working systems, there are many of my idea that I saw companies were also working at, and their design, while obviously different, proved mine to be faisable.
The Magnetic connector is my latest idea that also got put on the market before I could (I don't have enough money to make patents, those are expensive), though this is the kind of idea I don't ever consider need any proof, they are so simple it is easy deduction to understand it is faisable...
But I have other projects, I plan to get money through programming at first, though technically this is also inventing...
I remember when I was learning my first programming language other than web languages (HTML, CSS, PHP etc) or Assembly, Visual Basic.NET, in my online lessons, still with console at this time, they explained us how number sorting worked, they explained us with the simplest of them all, Bubble Sort, though they only explained how it work without code and it was our exercice to us readers to code it, I did, but then I was like.
Hmmmmm, I see a better way at doing this...Then I coded an algorithm that was SOOO fast at sorting numbers, I looked at most existing algorithms and didn't found anything remotely similar, I discovered Quick Sort, Heap Sort and all those, but mine was still really faster, so I thought I invented something incredible, but I was skeptical because it was quite simple, I didn't understood how no one didn't find it yet...
And at this time I looked at those video :
Then, while trying to improve the code, I did find out it was simply "Count Sort" a really simple and ultra fast sorting algorithms known since decades, but while ultra fast at sorting numbers, he isn't adapted for sorting anything else, which was what I was trying to solve, but I didn't continued as I didn't see the point...
But I coded a software, at this time my lessons only teached us the basics of console and programming (variables, functions, conditions, functions, text, how to make a windows, textbox buttons and not much more at this point), I did learn through other websites how to make "graphics".
And the way I coded my software is totally different from what most peoples would do, if you know about programming, well you can do recursive or iterative code, recursive is a code that call itself until conditions are meet so it stop calling other iterations letting himself stop, iterative is simply a code that is called and executed.
I did the opposite of recursive, my code was basically a loop that called the same functions (one per sorting algorithms) again and again, variables recorded the states (including what should have been recursions) of each functions so each time the function was called, it acted as if the function was progressing, on iterative you would call the function once and the function would simply do everything needed until it the end...
Here is the result :
So yeah, I'm that kind of guy, I have way too much imagination and a good logic, so I create things...
Demongornot, 22 May 2020I know, I was just saying that it isn't a big loss to have the "100x zoom" removed since it is... moreRight, 100x zoom is not quite a feature to die for here... & Thanks for clarifying my doubt about the high res image.
APS-H sized would, in my opinion, definitely require some foldable design, if at all its possible on a phone of any size.
But, what exactly do you mean by you're "working on a concept"... Are you a researcher or a company employee? Sorry if I'm being too curious.
Samath N8 808 owner, 22 May 2020Its ok for companies to use digital zoom because not all users are the top notch professionals... moreI know, I was just saying that it isn't a big loss to have the "100x zoom" removed since it isn't a real zoom anyway.
Well I think this is because they are trying, I mean, technically smartphone and camera work on the opposite way, while camera have large sensors that gather all the details and output really good quality but RAW pictures so pro can retouch them, Smartphones have small sensors that doesn't get the best RAW but they have self retouching AI so all the non pro users can just click and get their picture, that's why the camera software is as important as the hardware in Smartphones, what I think is happening is, they probably get a little more image than what the RAW zoomed image should provide, so the AI basically try its best to render the image, and the process output full resolution without being capable of checking how much real usable resolution there is, but since it is more than the RAW, it would cut quality down to reduce the file resolution, and the opposite is true, they can't risk to loose resolution with poor estimations, so they keep it to its unzoomed resolution.
Yes I know that, I am actually working on a concept allowing to have a single lenses able to do regular pictures with variable optical zoom and focus, it would basically act as a main, telephoto (probably around 20 to 50x optical zoom), ultra wide, portrait and macro/telemacro while having a big sensor, and I mean, APS-H sized.
Well it take quite few internal space, but for a ~6.5 device with a 16/10 display and body ratio and slightly thicker than usual (half an inch) there would still be more available space inside than on most other devices despite my concept !
And well I just found a way while writing the comment to integrate a gimbal + OIS feature despite it being periscope style.
This probably may not be the right time to launch a Samsung flagship and I don't think this is working any well in the market.
Demongornot, 21 May 2020Well for the 100x zoom it isn't that bad, as numeric zoom are basically the same thing as you ... moreIts ok for companies to use digital zoom because not all users are the top notch professionals, some are casual and ok with this.
But can anyone explain why they use a 12 MP stitching when the image itself is worth no more than 0.5 Megapixel at its top level of zoom... ? This baffles me.
My thinking is, if the same detail level (when zoomed in digitally) can be captured in a 1MP 400 kb image, then there's no need to upsize to make it a 12MP 4 MB image... but even modern mobiles do it.
Your point about ultra wide and telephoto needing more megapixels is rational, but there's a reason for that. Increasing megapixels in real sense can be done in only 2 ways:- increase sensor size (which will need more space), or make smaller pixels (which will reduce quality).
Also, lenses involving these wide angle and telehoto cameras are also space occupying in varying degrees.
In the end, let's just accept that we have no use for high megapixels, although for telephoto it may help trememndously if we use a Nokia 808 like approach to it.
Will it have a 3.5mm jack?
Bluetooth headphones suck. Sound is lousy.
Is that pic real? People showing up by the thousands to listen to a presentation being an ad for a new gadget. Are they insane?
Steven , 21 May 2020Is it WORTH 7-800$ difference compare to Note 10+ , ONLY for 120Hz ?
No 100x Zoom.
Worst 12... moreWell for the 100x zoom it isn't that bad, as numeric zoom are basically the same thing as you zooming on a picture on your phone/computer anyway, the 100x zoom was just a gimmick where the software allowed for a huge zoom on a picture without making it looking better except for a more region specific AI rendering...
I have a Panasonic HDC-SD80, it have a 42x optical zoom, when at 42x the picture look basically identical than a 1x in term of quality, but it can also go up to 2000x hybrid zoom, that doesn't mean it is giving any quality at that ridiculously high level of zoom, even of its tiny display we can already see the poor quality we get with that 2000x zoom...
The same apply for Smartphones.
Higher refresh rate Oled display are hell of expensive...
Also don't underestimate how expensive are newer SoC and 5G...
For the camera I agree, the minimum (but also the optimal) regular camera resolution is around 12Mp, but for a regular angle, zoom should have little higher resolution if you put hybrid zoom and using either binning or larger sensor for gathering more light, wide and ultrawide though should get more resolution than the main shooter because the picture is larger, but it doesn't mean we should get lower resolution for the same object...
That's why I always laughed at smartphone with huge main camera resolution and tiny wide/ultra wide and telephoto resolution !
Sony are the only one to do something remotely smart with their resolution per camera type.
LilPhone, 21 May 2020Note 20: dead on arrival.note is the best. Go home hater
Is it WORTH 7-800$ difference compare to Note 10+ , ONLY for 120Hz ?
No 100x Zoom.
Worst 12mp ultrawide camera than 16mp of Note 10+
LilPhone, 21 May 2020Note 20: dead on arrival.Lolwut. I’m buying it the moment it comes out