Anonymous, 12 Jun 2020so is it good thing when a brand make a good feature and other also implementing it even it's ... moreWatapen to my previous answer ?¿
Anyway, please, consider calming down, first, I didn't imply it was or that I consider it a good thing when a brand copy 100% another design.
I literally ASKED why peoples react so much when a brand copy another one, as you can find many comment of peoples reacting to a brand X implementing a similar (not identical) feature, in a different way, than brand Y (like the first periscope, and you'll probably see the same kind of reactions with the next brand implementing a gimbals camera, now that Vivo did it with the X50 Pro), in which case, I personally consider this is a good thing when done like that, because IMO great feature need to spread.
Of course that, outside specific circumstances, a product being a 100% the copy of another one is not a good thing, it isn't even legal.
See how and why peoples say stuff like that about me, I ask a question, then you jumped on the reply button accusing me to have a weird logic and not understand thing, that's literally what happen to me all day long, I know I am autistic which cause me to be dyslexic which imply that I think differently and therefor my ability to communicate isn't the same as everyone else, but c'mon I am not that bad at communicating...
When someone prove me wrong, I gladly accept it, learning stuff (and teaching) is way more satisfying for me than being right or to showing off my knowledge about something.
Most of the time, I just expose my preferences and peoples literally complain that X or Y feature, I like, shouldn't exist, and that Z feature is better...
Except that not only I bring argument as for why X and Y are good (or even objectively better than Z), but more importantly, in almost all my comments, X and Y features are super rare and Z features, that the guy like, is literally available on over 90% of all smartphones...
Which is exactly why I also openly criticize Z feature, because polls proved that a huge number of person or even the majority are tired of Z features, but it is still an industry standard despite having tons of issues and creating many bad habits.
This can apply to punch holes, notches, curved edge display, ultra thin phone, Jack port removal etc etc.
You won't see me criticizing something that is rare and/or non intrusive and/or good, with a punch hole (for example) you have no choices but to live with it, it invade the display and it is always there whatever you do, and if you don't like it you have to constantly live with it getting in the way of stuff in the display or of the notification and statut bar...
A bezel really don't cause anything more negative to the display itself than your own fingers visible on the side of the phone while you hold it, yes aesthetically your phone have it, but when you look at your display, is it really more distracting than the whole world around your phone ?
Or a pop won't cause any issue while not in use and that most supposed issue when in use are actually false idea peoples have, or an independent SD card tray can be left unused without any problems, etc etc.
And I often said I am for diversity, so if I had the power choose to remove or not any feature in the whole phone market, I wouldn't remove a single one, I'd rather make sure that none that are too invasive for the user flood the market and even bring back old ones, meaning there would be just less notches and punch holes, but not none...
What do you think those peoples who defend their favorite feature from someone who simply said he prefer something; and that you say are the majority or have "more appropriately fit" (I don't know what you meant, I imagine it mean "have better arguments" ?) would do to those minority features they don't like or don't care about ?...
Again, If I could set how many phone could have a pop up camera on the whole market, I wouldn't make half of them with that, even if I really think this is the ultimate solution, because I believe everyone should have choices, so what's actually better or more valid about those peoples trying to prove me wrong by saying that the features I like shouldn't exist ?
And what Cyberchum failed to understand about the router, was that, I simply said putting the 6Ghz (Wi-Fi 6E) on a Wi-Fi 6 router should become a norme (which BTW isn't worth that tantrum as it engage nothing), even on budget devices, for multiple reasons, it respect other peoples by allowing more Wi-Fi slots to be available, but also compatible devices always lag behind the router's standard and in the futur we will really wish we had Wi-Fi 6E sooner, so releasing router without this (that doesn't increase the price by much) should be totally normal.
But at the limit I can understand his reasoning, okay, saving few bucks can be nice, but about WPA 3 ? C'mon...Seriously peoples ?
Then I myself recognized that despite that I said USB port should be a standard as it is highly convenient, it isn't needed by everyone (as I said, I accept when I am wrong), and he proceeded to complain about me saying USB should be a standard in the next comment...
It look like peoples literally invent facts about what I said then hold me responsible for them...
If my comment is too long to be read, just don't read and answer it, don't read half then answer, it make no senses...
Find any comment I argued with someone and where I was wrong (fact vs opinion or facts vs more valid facts/proofs, not popular opinion vs facts), and I will apologize sincerely to this person and accept their opinion !
And I am not afraid to write that because I know that basically all the time, me arguing is basically me giving my own opinion about a feature I love and peoples saying said feature shouldn't exist despite me saying arguments, facts and giving proof explaining why said feature is good and not implying my personally preferred feature must replace their own one....
Or me giving facts (exemples, links and other impartial opinions) vs peoples saying they prefer X or Y features without even telling why, even for themselves, it is better, lets alone why said feature is objectively better...
Then there is the pop up case, where peoples simply said totally wrong, debunked myths about them, and I simply explain them that this is false, but peoples react as if I insulted their own choices for some reasons while I simply explained that this tech is not as bad as peoples think it is and explaining why it is actually and objectively better than other techs, which doesn't imply I am asking anyone to change their opinion, just to stop criticizing a tech with false facts, which is a legitimate request IMO, if they have legitimate facts against the pop up, ok I'll accept that.
The worse part in all that is that I don't even do all that to be right or to make other wrong or anything, I mainly fight so that everyone have a chance to get the right combinaison of features, and even if right now I would like to have my own combinaison of favorite feature available, it isn't even for me as right now I don't have the budget for the cost of such device and in the future, when (if) my projects succeed I'll have more than enough money to ask for a custom phone which mean I won't have to care what the trend is.
The day punch hole and notches will be rare, I'll defend them for the sake of diversity, yet I am constantly complained against for doing that right now...
Most peoples don't realize that such comment I write, do have an effect, and yes many peoples actually read my wall of texts.
I never thought once that me writing a single comment would change the whole industry, I know that for what I am doing, it need to be carefully thought sentences and arguments written many times over a long amount of time to have a small effect.
But most of the time, despite that I saw the results of what I actually do, I really wonder if loosing so much of my time arguing with peoples that will actually thanks me in the future when they'll understand the real extent of my actions or when I'll be on their side doing the same thing about feature they like now that will become rare in the future that I do now with things like the pop up or bezel, is really worth my time and efforts...
I educated and sensitized a lot of peoples about pop up and what it is really worth (and never gave false arguments nor over hype it), just a reminder that this is almost impossible to find a post about pop up failure and all pop up owners I ever read their opinion say they are satisfied with it, if it wasn't the case I wouldn't push so much peoples toward it and only said that I, personally, want it, and not that it is good if it wasn't, hell I even defend features I dislike but that other might like like the bezel or back/side FPS, that's one of the reason why what I do actually matter.
When I see someone saying he can't find a phone he like and it is full of features I don't like, I even sometime take my time to find such device if it exist.
All that can be verified, mainly on GSMArena where we can't edit something past 10 minutes, they are months of post of me doing all that.
And as I said, if you find a post where I was actually the one who really was wrong, I will happily recognize it and apologize..
Anyway, I hope you'll get what I mean, as I am starting to doubt my abilities to make other understand what I really mean...
Demongornot, 12 Jun 2020Well it change everything, it mean Xiaomi wasn't the one who copied things this time. I never... moreso is it good thing when a brand make a good feature and other also implementing it even it's exactly copying 100% similar? you have weird logic, thats why people cares who copying who and you failed to understand this because you have weird logic
Demongornot, 12 Jun 2020Just a friendly reminder, that guy accept other people's opinion as he is for diversity and ap... morethat's my line actually, you criticize others that was more appropriately fit directed to you
Anonymous, 11 Jun 2020doesn't matter and irrelevant, people will see this as copying from vivo and wasn't only me wh... moreWell it change everything, it mean Xiaomi wasn't the one who copied things this time.
I never understood anyway why peoples care about X brand copying Y brand to begin with...
I mean, isn't it a good thing when a brand make a good feature and other brand also implement it ?
Anonymous, 11 Jun 2020just a friendly reminder, that guy cannot accept other's opinion and always think what he thin... moreJust a friendly reminder, that guy accept other people's opinion as he is for diversity and appreciate when various idea are present on the pool (and only insist when idiot keep actually pushing their own idea without accepting anything else despite said things already being widespread, like punch holes) and only disagreed when despite FACTS peoples insist on totally wrong arguments.
While it is well known that peoples with negative and non constructive criticisms speak more than defenders of said idea and a majority of peoples against if facts give the impression he is alone while actually he gather mode votes and more peoples posting a SINGLE post rather than annoying him for hours with tons of post look like less, and despite pool results and easily check-able opinion on the WHOLE INTERNET rather than a local group of 2 or 3 haters prove him right (like the FACT that the majority of peoples in almost all pool prefer flat display over curved ones or dislike punch holes).
And the worse is that you are talking to a guy who don't understand that me saying that I consider a product to not have what should be the minimum isn't the end of the world, won't kill said product and is only an opinion and is simply unable to grasp the context of me literally saying to him that what he accuse me to do is not what I do.
But well, you are you too talking about someone else without directly confronting the subject to your opinion about him, there is a special word for peoples like you who talk about other peoples behind their back.
In my opinion, this is not pop up. As i look at the design picture it seems that may be it is flip camera. It comes from back to front. I think, this is a smart design.
Cyberchum, 11 Jun 2020Hahahaha hahaha. All these dump to soothe your ego. Whatever helps you get through your boring... morejust a friendly reminder, that guy cannot accept other's opinion and always think what he think (very subjectively) was the only one the right thing, while majority against his opinion, and the worst of it was he simply unable to grasp the context
Demongornot, 11 Jun 2020Read the article : *The patent was initially filed in August of 2018, when the pop-up hype wa... moredoesn't matter and irrelevant, people will see this as copying from vivo and wasn't only me who think the same
Anonymous, 11 Jun 2020I don't use insecure methods of unlock. The only thing worse than hackers getting hold of your... more3D facial unlock and ultrasonic fingerprint scanner are the most advanced and secure ones, but as you said, the big flaw is that those data can be accessed from hackers or from the OS maker (Google) or Smartphone brand (Samsung, Huawei, Apple, etc).
That's why I advocate the use of a dedicated chip for security, the idea would be to have all the basic of biometric and security hardware based on the chip, then locally stored (on said chip) software for all the updatable software part.
Being hardware mean really high speed, can work for basic face and eyes tracking for example in order for the more advanced features to do the real facial recognition.
The idea of course is to store all security related data locally in this chip, away from the OS and with enough memory to old many users, that way, not only the biometric data are safe, but also since it run independently from the OS, it is possible to protect boot loader and other OSless functions, making the phone impossible to factory reset/format without the proper biometric, meaning the phone would have little to no value for thief.
It can also allow for other interesting features such as combinaison of security methods (3D Facial recognition + fingerprint, or pattern + facial recognition, or even Facial recognition + facial expression + fingerprint + pattern for example), and each security methods would have a security score, the more secure the method, the higher the score (though the user could set its own preferences), rather than app or OS forcing you at using a particular security method, the user would be able to choose for each app independently what unlock method he want, so the chip would only send a security token level or a hashed code.
The hashed code would be for any websites or other who would use, in the future, biometric to log users (many think it is how a lot of things will evolve, so better prepare it now).
Rather than sending biometric data (bad idea) here your smartphone would do a specific map of your face/fingerprint in order to attribute a unique ID of yourself, repeatable from other devices, then the Hasing code will itself will be partially selected and hashed again depending on the website, meaning even if the website database is hacked, your biometric data are safe, and just using the standard that said chip would put in place, on any device you could still access the website and log yourself, the hashed code being unique to each websites (why not using the website name as a Hashing code ?), it doesn't allow to be tracked.
What do you think about that ?
Demongornot, 11 Jun 2020Exactly as I said, even if I literally said you would react like that and explained you as muc... moreHahahaha hahaha. All these dump to soothe your ego. Whatever helps you get through your boring day.
On the router article; you didn't like the router, you have no intention whatsoever to buy it, you already own a better one, according to you, you felt it doesn't have your "required minimum", yet spent so much time attacking it because, for some reasons, you think that if something doesn't meet your needs, it should be produced. Only those that are feature-packed should be put on sale. Left to you, there wouldn't be lowrange and midrange phones. Only flagships. Maybe because you could easily afford flagships, you think that any thing less doesn't meet "minimum requirements" and is an abomination.
If a product doesn't meet my needs, instead of whining about it, I overlook it and keep searching for what does. Assuming that at the end of the day I couldn't find one that does (which virtually never happen), settle for what is obtainable.
There are quite a good number of pop-up phones out there. Pick one. If manufacturers stop making them, they probably don't find it as something that drives demand (no company would remove a feature that contribute significantly to sales of their product and refuse to bring them back: Samsung, for e.g., removed memory expansion on Galaxy S6, and quickly brought it back with the S7). I remember back when it happened; people didn't write essays on the comment section complaining about it. Even on Samsung support forums. They took to the company's forums, where they still didn't write long essays (because what exactly is the point of the lengthy comment? Most people don't even read that. What happens to being succinct?). More productively, disgruntled users sign petitions. Recently, there's one about the Exynos chipset. That's an effective way to get company's attention; ever thought of that?
But these were the brand users. Do you use Xiaomi routers? Do you even use their products? If you do, how often do you complain about your dissatisfactions on their forums? How much importance do you think majority of buyers attach to USB ports on routers or, in this case, phones having pop-up cams as against punch-holes? How much do you think these things influence buyers purchases? If it influences majority of buyers purchases, don't you think that those phones that offer it would sell way more than that don't? You know that demand for product is probably the major factor that influences a company's decisions? You want a company to not release phones with punch-hole cams if they see high demands for punch-hole cams? You want them to not turn profit? You know that they are "for-profit" businesses, and would want to do just that by attending to demands, right? Sony, for e.g., has been very conservative in their phone designs, we all see how much products they are moving. They are really selling very well and making great profits. You could point to their inadequate ADs and high prices, but all those are contributing factors.
Best way for people to protest is with their pockets, followed by petitions, then, company overseen forums. The least is what you are doing. Trifle. I would never go to an iPhone article and start writing essay regarding the absence of the earphone jack, because I don't use iPhones—I have never owned one, and don't intend to own one. But I'd post comment(s) on articles about Xiaomi phone I intended to buy, speaking against the lack of 3.5 mm jack. And all my comments would be structured to reflect my personal opinion. Phrases like "to me" and "in my (humble) opinion" would be present. And not ones that would insult those that might not share those opinions of mine. Next thing; I'd not hesitate to turn to competitors' phones that offer the feature at similar price range. That's how to protest with your pocket.
Lest I forget, the security level of face ID was in no way the topic of discussion, but keep convincing yourself that it was. I'm so happy I disappointed you. Go improve your thinking, when you do, you'd become more flexible and accommodating of others' preferences.
Spanky, 10 Jun 2020What about face unlock? You have to constantly pop that „Inspector Gadget“ camera up and down,... moreI don't use insecure methods of unlock. The only thing worse than hackers getting hold of your fingerprint data is hackers getting hold of your face data.
Anonymous, 10 Jun 2020yesterday copying huawei mate x, now copying vivo V15... impressiveRead the article :
*The patent was initially filed in August of 2018, when the pop-up hype was at its heights.*
Cyberchum, 10 Jun 2020To think that all these long story was because some said that they find punch-hole more conven... moreExactly as I said, even if I literally said you would react like that and explained you as much as I could that you didn't understand at all what I do, and you were still unable to do something else than exactly what I wrote you would do.
I expected you to disappoint me and I got the intended result, you are still unable to understand what I said even after literally repeating it in different version in my long post.
So, once again, I have no choices but to stop talking with you, there is no point talking with someone unable to understand simple complex and who keep thinking that a person is X way while said person explain and demonstrate he is Y way.
I am just literally wasting time trying to bring reason to someone who can't change his mind in front of facts.
Me stopping a conversation this way is already something that happen extremely rarely, I really need to find a really special person with which no conversations is possible before I do that, but you did manage the incredible performance of being the first who I needed to do it twice, and not just twice in like different days and/or contexts, but twice in a row because you literally badmouth me without the balls to directly talk to be but rather hide yourself, the second time behind someone else's comment (which was a troll insulting me, so not playing in your favor here), and the second time of me writing a long comment to explain to you in all possible ways that you didn't understood my initial intentions and explaining what I actually do...
Your last comment being as further as the truth as possible, it almost look like you are so deep in your delusional certainty about how I am that you loose grasp of the reality...
Just a friendly reminder that the comment section is called "comment section" and not "agreed section", it is not for agreeing with the tech but for commenting about it, which include critics and opinion about liking it or not...
But it is certainly not to give your opinion about someone else's opinion on a device, me saying a device should be different is me using properly the comment section, you complaining that I don't agree with how devices are made is NOT what it is intended for, and it is a true demonstration of how one could be totally out of the subject, which is funny because you accused me to do such practice...
Even though you actually tried to twist it on your own advantage by saying that what a comment say was the subject while the subject was literally what I talked about, how can someone alter reality and still manage to be so wrong is beyond me, for your own sake, please never be a lawyer.
This day will, for me, stay an historical event where I had to totally stop answering the least able person to communicate both way that I ever interacted with or even heard of.
Congratulation, you just did prove me that humans can reach a lower level than I ever thought possible when it come to communication, making yourself well under the communication abilities to Hanabiko.
Enjoy still thinking whatever you want about me, I don't care anymore and I will definitely stop interacting with you for the previously listed reasons.
Have a good day, bye.
Demongornot, 10 Jun 2020The two of you are probably related, this Jojo3 is continuously writing the same thing insult ... moreTo think that all these long story was because some said that they find punch-hole more convenient than pop-up. They didn't attach pop-up, they simply said that pop-up are cumbersome for their uses. But then you stepped in, because how dare them? Why should they not find pop-ups as convenient as punch-holes? What right do they have to have different preferences?
Remind yourself this and wonder how your long articles are necessary. If you're gonna talk much, say much.
Cyberchum, 10 Jun 2020Hahahaha. Maybe one of these days, he'd land a writing gig here on gsmarena.
Personally, I... moreThe two of you are probably related, this Jojo3 is continuously writing the same thing insult to me, getting its post deleted by mods but yet he doesn't stop, as if he had a mission.
And you are the guy unable to understand that if no one defend pop up, it is going to disappear because it already have low popularity because there is a load of false myths about it, I am only telling the advantages of the pop up over other methods, I never forbidden anyone to buy an alternative, but you don't understand that, you are too sure you are so much the right guy that despite me literally giving up talking to you (and I challenge you finding me doing the same thing in the whole internet, maybe you could start understanding that this is a sign you might be a special case, not in the good way) in another post, OF COURSE someone showing something negative about me, you jump on the wagon.
He insult me just because my opinion doesn't match his own, yet you target ME who don't insult him back rather than him who resort to insult because of his opinion, do you realize the irony of the situation, that by itself it making you loose all credibility and legitimacy, but I am not a bad person so I still answer you.
My preferences DOES NOT invalidate others, literally I just explain why the pop up is better than we think, how in many situation it actually is the best option and break down the misconceptions about it.
I never said it was more convenient, I simply explained that those "shortcoming" are almost all imaginary or widely exaggerated, with proof and exemples !
For the 3D facial recognition, I literally quote you :
*Since phone B has those features, why not buy it and leave phone A for the targeted buyers, which you are clearly not one of? Why be a crybaby over everything? Anybody that needs those features would go for phone B, while overlooking phone A. Except you!*
Except that phone with pop up + 3D facial recognition DON'T exist, and no the Oppo find X isn't a proper pop up, it is a pop up/slider hybrid, plus it is old and lack many modern features.
So based on what you said YOURSELF, I have all legitimacy to defend phone B, except that phone B doesn't exist, simply because the setup of phone A is literally the only one available as it flood the market, but I bet you still won't be able to understand that concept even based on a sentence you wrote yourself.
So this is really funny of you talking about "one dimensional thinker" while not being able to understand that defending rare features is a good thing.
And the topic is about an old pop up patent from Xiaomi, pop up which is the ONLY solution to have 3D facial recognition other than having a bezel that peoples want to move away from and still having a fulldisplay available.
It is also the ONLY front camera solution that bring privacy, which is way more important than ANY feature you could ever talk about, and while being rare, but "OMG I am an idiot for defending so much the pop up" !
You can't understand that Wi-Fi 6E vs Wi-Fi 6 (which doesn't add much to the cost BTW, but you probably don't know that, it was too tempting to wine about someone) is not about speed only but also about not being an ass and blocking the damn whole available Wi-Fi bands in the appartement just because we own many Wi-Fi equipment, and why because of this exact reason, there is no point at selling a non Wi-Fi 6E router.
But you can't even understand that a router should get upgraded to the latest security standard (that cost nothing to add), so how you could understand the reasons why Wi-Fi 6E need to be added...
Mainly considering that while I said an USB port is really useful, but then admit that of course not everyone need it, you kept yourself using it as if it was an argument to hold me for things I said should be put on a router.
But again, there are already Wi-Fi 6 router available but none have Wi-Fi 6E 6GHz band support, yet, I am the bad guy for saying that a Wi-Fi 6 router only, now that 6GHz band have been approved, is a stupid thing and tell that it should have support for that, I am the bad guy, even if you talked yourself about "other available options" while there are NONE.
Still all that is too hard for you to understand.
If you look back in GSMArena comments, you'll find me saying something like this :
"I am for DIVERSITY, even features I hate I think they should still exist because there are peoples who want them, I just consider that this is totally okay to criticize features that are totally overcrowding the market when they have a negative effect and no one want them (like punch hole which you can't do anything about it vs NFC which doesn't change anything for the user who can simply ignore it) which is why I defend rare features, even those I don't like or even hate when they are rare or on the bring of extinction but are desired and don't do any negative things to the user (pop up or audio jack for exemple)".
But coming from someone who say to accept other's choices but can't accept other's comments, I don't see how you can comprehend any of what I said here, and like "Jojo3", you'll keep repeating the same thing despite me clearly telling you since multiple comments that this is totally not what I am doing and you just can't understand it.
Also, for a guy who talk about someone else negatively, without directly talking to this person, I think you shouldn't even be taken seriously, that's a nasty attitude.
[deleted post]Hahahaha. Maybe one of these days, he'd land a writing gig here on gsmarena.
Personally, I prefer pop-up cameras. I don't use face unlock, and I hardly take selfies. But my preference shouldn't invalidate others'.
He obviously believe that because some owners of pop-up camera smartphones using it for facial unlock means it's very convenient for them. They could be putting up with it, managing it, accepting the shortcoming, but he wouldn't know that. I don't expect one-dimensional thinkers like him to be able to understand that.
And then he dragged 2D facial biometric security level into it, just to sound correct. But the topic was about the ease of using face ID, not its secureness.
yesterday copying huawei mate x, now copying vivo V15... impressive
Anonymous, 10 Jun 2020i used it every day as face unlock.. and i hate pop up selfie camera.. punch hole or water dro... moreBecause one is giving you true fulldisplay, privacy and could (if it was more popular) allow for many sensors to be available.
The other killed every sensors other than a camera and is removing a chunk of your display.
The wheel is really old, it doesn't mean it is obsolete.
Same with the lighter which predate the matches, still many modern lighters are better than the classic matches design.
Or Macromedia Flash is a good exemple, it is newer than HTML by several years, yet it is obsolete now while HTML still have years to prosper.