First of all design of the oneplus 8T is no good 😕 it is like a samsung flagship design ,specially camara setup 💁♂️, as well no any telephoto lens 🤦♂️🤔 actually telephoto lens is very important as flagship phone .However we expected 8t pro will be launch as premium flagship smart phone in October with new features such as periscope lens 💁♂️💁♂️💁♂️💁♂️💁♂️
Anonymous, 30 Sep 2020The magnetic actuator design you mention, is that the same idea as the periscope zoom design i... moreYes and no, the goal is more about getting from position A to position B, there is no stop in between unlike a continuously variable zoom/focus lenses set, it is close enough but also different and made for moving a larger thing slower (still way faster than motor based) and on a longer distance.
But, there are some stabilisation enhancement, the vertical guiding rails can have small magnets on the pop up and on the other side (inside the phone body) compact hall sensors, or other simple short distance measuring sensors under the pop up (not ultrasound though as the speed of sound would cause too much delay here), they could be used to measure the position of each sides to modify the coils input to stabilize it, also to avoid the requirement for calibration as the software always knows where the pop up is.
There are many potential designs, but basically, the idea is as follow :
The transparent parts are only to show this is a structural "wall" while allowing to view the inside, it is a really simple representation, the rectangle correspond to magnets and the tube to a coil.
So the pop up have one magnet on each sides, but its compartment have two magnets on each sides, one on too and another on the bottom.
All are oriented to attract the pop up and to keep opposed charges when they are in parallel.
The goal of the coil (which would be taller and reach close to the magnets, it is only for representation purposes here) is to : when enabled, since electromagnetism quickly reach a far greater force than magnetism produced by magnets, the magnets of the pop up will be attracted by the coil, with a distance measuring sensor, the coil know when to stop and also differential power between the two coils can be used at high frequency to be powered with polarity A, B or un-powered (no need for any complex/Variable power settings other than that), allowing to control the speed and potential unsymmetrical movements.
The rest of the time, the pop up is only held in place by the magnetic force, which is a good thing as it is quite easy to retract it accidentally, meaning if you force push it, there is nothing mechanical that can be damaged, it just get in.
There are many magnet combinaison and orientation possible here, but the basic idea is quite well represented and easy to understand with this one, which is the most basic.
Combine that with a PID with a basic enough memory to keep the data about the pop up so that even when it get old and worn out and the magnet power have changed, it can operate smoothly.
Also here with the two rails on the back in this exemple, there the magnets for the hall sensors are, or if other measurement system are used, those would be around that spot, a third one on front centered would allow to have a triangulation and to tell, based on gyroscope data if the pop up is being forced horizontally, in which case an emergency retraction with lightning fast latency could allow to save it.
Technically the same design with 4 magnets/electromagnet group, one at each, could be used to have a motion compensation, but I don't know if it would work that well.
Anonymous, 30 Sep 2020It is not even a full complete design , it's like you just got CAD on your computer and d... moreIt is my own design and yes it isn't complete because I stopped since I reached some unpractical limitations of SketchUp, I wanted to switch, I originally got to think about trying Autodesk Fusion 360, but their free trial is starting to get messy, so I'll probably do my models in FreeCAD and render them on Blender, like most peoples do I guess...
You mean air tight main phone body ?
Because every phones basically already have air tight bodies...
Or do you talk about the spot where the pop up is located ?
Because this last can't be air tight, it would have a suction effect on the pop up, it just need to be close to what current pop up already have.
Also, considering that this fictional phone body mainly graphene, well the main frame is graphene/3D printed titanium mix, but the main body, almost all the external parts, including the screens, and that graphene have THE best thermal conductivity of any material, combined with heat pipes, I don't really worry about the cooling of this phone.
Yes, this phone is supposed to be properly watertight with real waterproof, not the water resistance IP68 but proper waterproof, think Gopro waterproof's cases, properly designed for this.
This phone wouldn't even be build the same way as regular phones, it have a latch mechanism with a strong watertight main back door that allow for battery replacement, SIMs and SD cards swap, and if required to also open the whole body, so it doesn't use the typical joint paste here as it is made to be user repairable.
It isn't too wide as it is the whole point of having a pop up housing that many sensors for a really secured facial recognition, meaning one "portrait selfie" camera, one ultrawide, one UV, two IR and a dot projector.
Phones like the Vivo V17 Pro and Vivo X27 Pro also have wide pop up and I never heard any issues about them, plus this is based on my electromagnetic pop up, so there is no need for any motors here.
That's why not only there are vertical rails and guides, but also some self stabilisation during actuation.
Demongornot, 29 Sep 2020The reason is, despite its still huge popularity, the pop up that was way more initially popul... moreThe magnetic actuator design you mention, is that the same idea as the periscope zoom design in some phones ?
Demongornot, 29 Sep 2020Dude, separated compartments, isolated modules, no opening to opponents/pass-through flex cabl... moreIt is not even a full complete design , it's like you just got CAD on your computer and did some random tweaks to designs already out there.
If there are air tight compartments how is heat supposed to dissipate evenly and quickly?
Even camera modules produce some heat, what with small motors, ois modules, optical zoom ,etc
Plus the raise and lower mechanism would create some small amounts of heat.
In some countries that's not an issue but places of high constant humidity for example.
You talk about any sort of multi layer gasket system for dust or moisture, moisture build up even in an IP rated design is a bad thing, so even a camera housing completely sealed and separate from the main phone body would need to be designed properly.
Your camera pop up is too wide and gives opportunity for wobble on rise and drop, if the motors or motor isn't situated perfectly to distribute the load and movement.
Aspros, 29 Sep 2020Because they buy their screens from Samsung and this is what Samsung provides. The panels that... moreAnother self proclaimed misleading comment, the initial side located camera hole punch were not a failure rather than their indication of start and their centered punch hole approach and minimzing its area directs their very soon unveiling of under display camera in upper center
"the company will unveil new true wireless earphones, a smartwatch"
You have been wasting time on this and Nord ? Arrgh.
Jasper5774, 29 Sep 2020Good
They overestimates their brand value
Display issues along with high price was the main ... moreOP8 pro sales never took off?
It's one of the most well rounded and best selling flasghip of 2020 in most parts of the world.
because they still have 95% of their 8T sitting @ their warehouse, so it making no sence to overstock any more phones.
Anonymous, 29 Sep 2020Why would then Oppo and OP give up on pop up to put IP rating? Screen with hole is more expe... moreBecause they buy their screens from Samsung and this is what Samsung provides. The panels that Samsung provides have some certain specs. The initial projects backfired heavily and forced them to make new ones with smaller holes, put higher and in the middle. The excess of those failure panels were sold in discount to other "cheap" companies like oneplus. This is the only reason oneplus went from laughing it off, to embracing the big old Note 10 hole on 8pro and the S10 hole on the Nord. This year oneplus tried to monetarize they good standing, so they inserted the cheapest materials they could find load it up with gimmicks and sold it for a $1000. They are not a vfm company that respect their clients anymore, so here goes the pop up camera in favor of the extra profit
Anonymous, 29 Sep 2020Why would then Oppo and OP give up on pop up to put IP rating?
Screen with hole is more expe... moreThe reason is, despite its still huge popularity, the pop up that was way more initially popular.
Its popularity didn't decreased because it is bad or unliked, quite the opposite, the majority of users who got a phone with a pop up are really satisfied with it and really liked it.
The issue come from a bunch of concerns that were initially written in new article, those were only concerns, they said that it may have "water", "dust", "wear", "fragility", "unreliability", "additional point of failure", "moving parts" etc related concerns.
Those were only concerns, not something that was sure to happen, and with over 2 years of pop up and a quite rare (really difficult to find more than few) reports of pop up related issues, those are proven to be totally wrong, but peoples are peoples, they quickly turned those concerns of potential issues into made up facts and talk about the pop up like if a single drop of water on the other side of the phone, a single dust particle and more than 3 use would kill the whole device.
And those fearmonger who constantly spread those totally inaccurate myths caused a HUGE decline in the pop up popularity.
Also there is the issue that we live in a time where innovation is almost dead and most of the things that exist are simply slight modification of older ones but basically no design changes...
And since the punch hole is popular and OnePlus literally stopped to pretend to care about user desires with the OP8, well...
Anonymous, 29 Sep 2020IP68
6 = dust
8 = water
Dust gets inside, increases heat and damages components.
:) Dude, separated compartments, isolated modules, no opening to opponents/pass-through flex cables.
Nor water nor dust can get in the main body, as it is physically not opened in the main body.
We can make it like my design from my fictional concept phone :
And the way it can be implemented, like mine (which isn't the most space efficient in that configuration but it is better to show the concept even if it still take less space than with a motor) can allow for simply unscrewing the pop up port without opening the main body, allowing to easily clean it up if dust got to accumulate in the pop up compartment, as magnetic actuation wouldn't have that much torque compared to motor which mean dust could jam the mechanism, but even there, unlike a motor design, since it is latched in place with magnetic force, it could(should) be made with a little range of motion under the "retracted" level which would easily unstuck it :
Also, I don't think there was any instance of dust issues with any pop up smartphones other than a temporary jam of the pop up that was fixed with the calibration feature.
Demongornot, 29 Sep 2020Not only pop up can be made waterproof by simply NOT putting them inside the main body but in ... moreWhy would then Oppo and OP give up on pop up to put IP rating?
Screen with hole is more expensive than non-hole counterpart.
It would be much more convenient for Samsung make S series like A80 camera instead of ugly hole if they could apply the IP with external moving parts.
If Asus try to put IP, they will drop the flip camera.
Demongornot, 29 Sep 2020Not only pop up can be made waterproof by simply NOT putting them inside the main body but in ... moreIP68
6 = dust
8 = water
Dust gets inside, increases heat and damages components.
Anonymous, 29 Sep 2020OnePlus has chosen IP rating over pop.
No going back now ... Not only pop up can be made waterproof by simply NOT putting them inside the main body but in a separated compartment instead.
But also IP rating by itself is useless as it doesn't guarantee your phone won't die because of water and it even cause a cognitive bias to lets peoples think their phones are submarines, which is bad as no company cover water damages but rather all have water damage stickers proving how unreliable IP rating is.
Also a phone can be made more water resistant than the typical IP68 rated phone while still not being IP rated, it is a certification, not a watertight repellent.
And finally, the pop up itself can be dramatically changed to have a way better design, like electromagnetic actuated which doesn't require any components (like the motor) to be exposed to water and have the independent pop up's compartment and pop up module/enclosure linked through contact pins or pass-through flex cables, improving largely the tech, it also require no moving part and have virtually no wear, totally stopping those long disproved myths about pop up reliability.
So, I agree, no going back to the old way, but going forward to a better way is totally possible and would be better.
I was in a dilemma whether to buy oneplus 8 Pro or the Samsung galaxy S20. In the end I bought the Samsung galaxy S20 and I have to say that I made the right decision my friend bought Oneplus 8 Pro and I compared my galaxy S20 with him and I found that my galaxy is superior to the oneplus8 pro in almost all departments be it camera, software, performance etc
Olym1mk2, 29 Sep 2020IPhone 13 will be much better, and a worthy upgrade. So you better wait till next year. Eh? iPhone 13 is so outdated. Wait for iPhone 20. It's gonna shoot lasers from its selfie camera!
Ok, one down, now im just waiting for the Mate40pro.
If that disappoints, i'd have to go with Note20ultra.