Mark, 01 Jun 2010Slightly easier, still virtually impossible. At best S^4. Please remember though, S^3 will mak... more"Slightly easier, still virtually impossible. At best S^4. Please remember though, S^3 will make you very happy. "
too bad :(, and yeah, im totally fine with symbian IF made snappier :), just wanted more openingness to the OS, .. still symbian is as open as it gets compared to the rest of OS... let alone functionality, i too dont get the fuss about Andriod..
Enginner Man, 02 Jun 2010Tom - Helge is forgetting something. Android is not a light OS. It's very CPU, & memory in... moreOk, if you say that Android require so much out of the mobile phone, then why the hell are my Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 running Android 2.1 so good then?.
Look at it's specs here and explain to me why the X1 runs Android 2.1 really good and pretty smooth to: http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_xperia_x1-2246.php
The meme that Android needs alot of CPU power to run is dullsh*t.
You say Symbian is a light OS, yeah maybe it is, but saying Android is not a light OS when it runs perfectly on my XPERIA X1, then i think your a lying basta*d.
Yeah, about the GPU and the rendering on the N8, that's true. But rendering stuffs and running stuffs very fast is 2 different things. Get that into your head now.
The OS will be driven by the GPU since the UI effects goes via the GPU, well true, but still, the GPU doesn't controll how fast your device is. The GPU controlls how smooth your UI experience is going to be.
The next thing about the ARM11 things are not true. ARM11 is a very old CPU and can't run much compared to what Snapdragon can do. Why do you think Nokia N8 have to use the GPU so much to work good huh?.
On the next thing, yeah some of that is true, but doesn't help to have a fast working phone that goes smooth today when it will be outdated and abandoned in one year because the CPU is terribly and can't get support for the next Symbian OS'es.
There should ring a bell for you here about what i'm talking about here.
The new Snapdragon CPU is extremely better than the old architecture that the ARM11 CPU's are running on.
They are alot faster, use about the same power as the ARM11 CPU's, since the Snapdragon CPU's are manufactured with better technology than ARM11 was manufactured with.
You see, the AMD Athlon 64 X2 7850 Black Edition CPU i have in my computer now, use lesser power than the old AMD Athlon X2 4600+ CPU i had many years before i bought the AMD Athlon 64 X2 7850 Black Edition CPU.
And the AMD Athlon 64 X2 7850 Black Edition CPU owns the AMD Athlon X2 4600+ CPU inabsolutely everything, it's about 60-80% better than the AMD Athlon X2 4600+ CPU.
Do you know why?, because the CPU is manufactured with new technology and are produced in a much much better way. So they are much more powerfull and much more effective.
Symbian ^3 will have good memory management?, yeah i'm sure it will have, but again, doesn't help to have a good phone with good memory management when the phone can't be supported anylonger after 1 year or something like that. Don't you get that?.
Calling Symbian for a more open OS than Android is a pure lie. I will say Android is more open and better.
And not only that, more and more developers are going from Symbian over to Android. Is that good enough evidence for you to realize that Symbian is not so good as you want it to be?.
Because if Symbian had been so good as you say it is, then why are developers running away from Symbian to Android now?.
This should give you a hint.
Yeah, you better hope that the current Symbian ^3 devices that are announced now will be able to run Symbian ^4 and the next OS'es after that.
Because if not, then Nokia N8 for example will be the biggest joke of a mobile phone to spend 420-440 euro on ever.
Enginner Man, respect! I'm so lazy to write something as constructive as your comment below as it needs a lot of time and, frankly, we who love and use Symbian phones know that and are not interested in educating children nor are we convinced by marketing gimmicks as 'lifetime support'. Man, that statement alone made me laugh so hard I almost thanked Tom for pointing it out. 'Lifetime support' LOL.
Tom just has a pay check to collect so he NEEDS to ignore posts like yours as they go waaaaay beyond his minds comprehension. Mark also tried but, alas, failed as Tom is just that mad about that premium price he paid only to realize a Nokia mid-range phone would out-feature his SE 'flagship' by a large margin. For me, thats comedy. It's so funny, I cant white the smirk of my face while I'm writing this reply. Oh, and Tom, tell me and Enginner Man how lousy the ARM11 CPU from 2002 is...please, your reasoning is...is...hehehehehe
And yet you say nothing about the lousy N8 CPU...disappointed, very. But nice to see you, and again with the same comments. And you wait for something...special? Well, for 550euro it better be worth it, like the latest Android...but X10 owners are so mad about the whole os update thing some started a petition to make SE skip 2.1 and go for 2.2 instead. A PETITION! For 550 euro I must sign a petition because SE put donut os 1.6 in ther 'flagship'? WOW! I'll say it again as it's so unreal...WOW! But do tell me about the lifetime support some more, seams it will take literally that long to patch/update the thing...hehehhehehe
Tom - Helge is forgetting something. Android is not a light OS. It's very CPU, & memory ineffiecient, & consumes a lot of battery power. That's why Android devices need high specification requirements. Also Android is going there own way & are not fully closed source. Theres no privacy anymore if your an android owner & they make money just about over every spam, message, advertisment, everything the users do, they know.
Symbian, on the other hand is a light OS. What it does do well is being the most open source development program because it uses C++ which is well known & good environment & has lots of potential, a synch for most Mobile OS programmers & the community alike aswell as major third party corps will drop easily behind them & support them fully.
Symbian 3 will have limitations to 640x360, but this means the N8 will have a very good GPU capable of rendering 3D & 720P using direct hardware acceleration directly output to the screen at this resolution not using software synthesis algorithms etc.. etc..
Symbian doesn't need a fast CPU, apparently the CPU is down clocked from 720MHz or something similiar. 680Mhz is only needed for Multitasking & opening Apps, the rest of the 3D UI wil be GPU driven & this is a powerful GPU.
Whether you have snapdragon or a good quality ARM 11 CPU. ARM has always had the instruction set extensions, & arithmetic abilities to reach far beyond an Intel desktop chip at super low voltages lower than snapdragon. It can drive video gaming, encoding, playback of video, audio encoding. It's abilities to concker many different Multi tasking contents are excellent.
A SOC CPU relies very much on it's architecture, it's pipeline, cache, arithmetic, symmetry, calculations, instruction set extensions, design, & the performance of that architecture along with chipset & integrated memory controller & GPu which does much more than standard Desktop OS Chip. Snapdragon is a different different to ARM as an Intel is to AMD.
There is no basis to draw a line of conclusion between two mobile CPUs that a 1GHz CPU could outperform a slower CPU of lower Clock cycles of completely different Architecture. Since efficiencies here play a huge role as to which CPU can clearly finish processing an instruction first.
Symbian 3 will have huge memory management which will bring higher speed & performance improvementd along with refined Kernel, improved haptic, tactile, touch sensitivity, improved GUI with 3 Widget homescreens, simpler one touch click functions with menus offering more buttons & speedier access to anything. OS efficieny & speed to drive lower power lower clocked CPU's very well, can already do gaming well, video well.
Symbian doesn't need large frequency CPU's. Since the MHz is'nt the factor in speed. Symbian doesn't need large batteries because it's effcicient & uses lower power than Android.
It's a more open system with plenty of support. You will see Big GUI & 3D UI changes using GPU's. Symbian already has the largest market share & most sold ever devices & Nokia, Symbian realize the weak points of this OS. You will see a fantastic difference.
I'm sure Symbian 3 devices will have hardware support for later incarnations & the ability to update to newer versions of Symbian, plus it will have OVI plus devices running S^3, S^4 will be backwards compatible & it will be able to run apps made for Meego & Meamo. Symbian will then have a large app support base, community support base from meego & meamo, third party app dev support.
why I'm so full of i, 02 Jun 2010Tom, you are 26? Really? Yet you say something like 'then hahahahaha'....where are you from an... moreAnd i need to point this out also.
Yup, i will use my XPERIA X10 for 5 years and maybe more if i take really good care of the phone.
I had my Sony Ericsson S700i mobile phone for 6 years, and the phone is still working very good, except that the battery is a bit broken.
So if i just change the battery, i'm sure i can have S700i working for another 4 years at least.
So i can use a mobile phone from Sony Ericsson for 10 years if i take good care of the phones.
Well yeah, i'm just happy more and more can come here to read my points on why Nokia N8 is not a phone that is meant for the future. Or meant to last more than 1 year.
When i say meant to last more than 1 years max, i mean it will not be supported anylonger than that, and the phone will be abandoned because the hardware is so bad that they can't continue to support the phone with the newest Symbian OS'es that comes out from time to time.
And about that i spent 530 euro on my XPERIA X10, well you get what you pay for. You get an awesome mobile phone and you get lifetime support on the phone to, so it's worth every euro out of it.
And also, why wait 1 year so the price can sink 60% from what it's worth today. Do you really think i would buy the XPERIA X10 in 1 year when we have new mobile phones with the new dual-core 1.2 GHz Snapdragon CPU then?.
I still want a very high spec'ed mobile phone no matter what, so i have to use alot of money no matter when.
Yeah i have to wait on Android 2.1 on my XPERIA X10, but haven't you learned that those who wait for something, usually waits for something good :-).
And you say no radio to XPERIA X10?, ok so you mean this is not a radio i got with the package when i bought the XPERIA X10?: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/accessories/overview/mw600?cc=no&lc=en
Well nice try, but i didn't buy that at all.
Tom, you are 26? Really? Yet you say something like 'then hahahahaha'....where are you from anyway? In PC AND electronics since 17? You tell it like its for a medal. To me, and judging from your comments, you don't have the IT knowledge to take you seriously.
The XPERIA X1 has a 528MHz CPU and you stated it will be more than sufficient to run Android 2.2. The N8 clocks at 680MHz and you can OC it but lets leave it at that. Do you think, even for a moment, that Android will not be ported to N8 one day and make use of that beautiful GPU? Yes, it hurts but it will happen. Even the famous 5800XM got custom firmware. You see, what bugs me is WHY would I buy a phone(X10) that advertises features that are yet to be released? You will use it for 5 years? Nah, you wont man. But I can tell that you are having a blast writing it here. :) And, well, we all love it cuz you just make the N8 get that extra daily interest, total hits, votes and comments. Please, don't ever go away...I mean, at least stick around till the N8 comes out. Oh, look, just 65k colors and no 802.11n? Or will it come with the next firmware? Lol. Do you know how important having .11n is? I could write a 10 paper essay on it...but...don't like kids that much to care and teach. You paid 550euro? Really? Ouch! I don't spend money on something that will be worth 60% less a year latter, like your X10. You must hate yourself bad for buying a phone that has no HD video rec. hehehehe Yes, the fabled 2.1 update. hehehehe how long will you wait? One? Two months? Oh, look, Q4 2010. IT'S A LOUSY DEAL! I can't wait to get my N8 and use all of its nice and cheap features. OMG, no radio on X10? Oh, thats just rich! hahahahahaha(pun intended)
Mark, 01 Jun 2010Yeah good luck with getting updated Android versions for your HTC machine, since they have eve... moreSo your saying that because HTC want to make a nice UI that looks really really awesome, they will lose customers over that?.
I think more and more customers will go over to HTC or Sony Ericsson because they can make really nice UI's.
Because how the UI's looks today is an important thing to many oeoples today, and will have much to say on what phone they will choose. So that's why Android have nice UI's while having tons of modifications you can do with the OS / UI.
people, who ever wants to talk about x10 got to x10 page, who want to talk about iphone go for the iphone page, as it also goes for moto, samsung and etc... keep every page for it's main topic...
and instead of crying why n8 doesn't have android, leave it and get an android phone....
Symbian ^3 OS is a new software, no one can really know if it will be slow or it will run fast... so don't start judging based on ur ignorance that this n8 needs bigger processor, just wait for it to be released and try it, if u find it slow and u can't seem to handle it just sell it and get another phone...
and for the people who says n8 is outdated, have u ever seen a cam this big on some other phones??
does all phones have v 3.0 Bluetooth?
as for GPRS & EDGe Class 33.. does this looks outdated?
or the fact that it has usb OTG?
it also have an fm transmitter which is very rare on other cellphones...
it has a small battery and it still can play music for 50 hours.... that's much more than my ipod...
Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n....
only haters think this phone is outdated or some retards who can read...
and one more thing, it has Anodized aluminum casing and not like what u people have written "plastic toy"...
waiting for this phone to be released so i can judge it after i use it, not just talk without having any idea about it or how it will perform...
if i used it and i found it slow or some way have flaws then i could start my complains... or i can just back switch to another phone or go back to my old ones...
Nokia using Samsung interesting..
Samsung AMoled being used by everyone. Wow its like a hot girl being used by guys that are desperate for
hotness and status
htc-Quietly Brillian, 01 Jun 2010I love Nokia. I will be honest, this phone is also great in my eyes, but the thing that pulls ... moreYeah good luck with getting updated Android versions for your HTC machine, since they have even more work to do for Sense UI than SE. That is so bad for consumers.
Anonymous, 01 Jun 2010How can you just say all this about the N8 without even trying a working model yourself? Remem... moreNokia N900 will have a much longer lifetime than the Nokia N8, simply because the hardware in the N900 is much more powerfull than the hardware that are in the N8.
And i don't need to try a Nokia N8 to understand how technology works today.
Anyone can looks at a computers hardware specs and judge it out of that.
Then again. this version of Symbian looks a touch better than the last one, eager to see what it will turn out to be, although I'm still buying my htc Desire! :|
I love Nokia. I will be honest, this phone is also great in my eyes, but the thing that pulls me away is Symbian. Symbian is just far behind Android, Android has the customization and little features that make it such a great OS. Nokia needs to step their game up with Symbian, loosen it up a little, Symbian is literally a bit too 'stiff' in terms of customization, It is basically the same thing early Nokias had, but with a touch interface. Android is the reason htc phones have won me over. Hoping to see Nokia improve symbian in their next few phones, Majorly.
[deleted post]N8 is 2008 device. Upgrade package only of Nokia 5800.
Tom-Helge, 01 Jun 2010First i will say learn to speak English. And no your wrong. The XPERIA X10 is capable of do... moreHow can you just say all this about the N8 without even trying a working model yourself? Remember how the N900 surprised everyone. The N8 might do the same, so just wait til it is released and then you can pass judgement
goron goron, 01 Jun 2010cmon tom how can u'll be so sure bout X10 will got android 3? my P910 M600i never got any upda... moreHow i know XPERIA X10 will get Android 3.0?.
Well lifetime support is lifetime support no matter how you want that to be.
I have been promised alot of stuffs from Sony Ericsson in all of those years i have used their products.
And guess what, then have ALWAYS given me the things they have promised.
Now, how can you prove that to be wrong?.
When they have given me all of the promises to now, then they will still be giving me the things they always promise. I believe them now after so many years. And it would be a disaster for them to lie about something they promise.
Simply because alot of customers would be really pissed off about that then. And that's not doing business. That's losing cutomers and money in the long run.
Ofc, Sony Ericsson needs more money when they make new phones and that, but we have already payed so much for our XPERIA X10 that the lifetime support is worth it on the XPERIA X10.
And no, as long i can run everything smooth and very fast in 2-3 years, then the phone is not outdated that way.
Nokia N8 is already outdated before it's released since it most likely can't run Symbian ^4 lol.
How fail is that?.
In 2 years, then Symbian ^3 is long gone and forgotten and no one will make any programs for it. And while i can run a new and updated OS in 2 years where every developers are supporting the new OS, so i'll get all of the nice applications and that kind of stuffs then on my XPERIA X10.
This is what i'm trying to tell. Nokia N8 have already lost and been outdated the day Symbian ^4 is released.
Ofc Nokia N8 will runs nice and smooth today, but that doesn't help much for the future.
It's best to try it before you buy it, not just fiddling around for a few minutes, but play it untill you can see its normal performance.
Aseem, 01 Jun 2010Firstly live in present. don't live in future. let first x10 get android 2.1 nd then speak abt... moreFirst i will say learn to speak English.
And no your wrong. The XPERIA X10 is capable of doing quite alot of things as long the OS can deliver all of that kind of stuffs to the XPERIA X10.
And no, i rather have an old crappy OS that can be upgraded later on the X10 instead of having hardware that is so old on the N8 that it can't even run the next OS that is being released by Symbian at the end of this year lol.
And i have to lol at you for the statement you gave about the 1 GHz Snapdragon CPU there.
That made my day.
And hani, if someone needs that kind of stuffs, it's you. Because when you see what kind of replies that comes from you here. Then yeah.
Don't speak to high when your as bad as it can get your self.
And if you call that for a good reply back, then hahahahahaha.
And to you Tom. I'm 26 years old and i have been working with computers and all kinds of electronics since i have been 17-18 years old.
Ok, to your questions.
1. Yes the GPU is fast on the Nokia N8, but that doesn't mean the games that comes out in the future will be as good as that because of the crappy CPU.
You know, games gets developed further and games comes with better graphics and higher CPU requirements, like games do on computers. And when the CPU can't compete anylonger, it's over and out.
Nokia N8 is a good camera phone and a good gaming phone, get that?, and that's all about the phone.
Now try to run a CPU benchmark program on the different phones and you will see what i'm trying to explain here.
2. I know the XPERIA X1 isn't fast, but still it's running Android 2.1 pretty damn fast. Doesn't that tells you anything about how little CPU power Android needs to run good?.
I know pretty good that the XPERI X10 beats the Nokia N8 extremely hard in CPU power and on how fast the phone is.
By looking on the YouTube videos of the Nokia N8 now, i can alone by that see that my XPERIA X10 is 2-3 times faster than the Nokia N8.
You better hope the final version of the N8 gets way faster than it have been showing on those YouTube videos so far.
And no, sorry, an old CPU like the Nokia N8 have can't come close to how fast the Snapdragon CPU is, it's not even close by a mile.
Even if the OS in the Nokia N8 might run as fast as my XPERIA X10 with Android 1.6, it doesn't mean everything else in the phone will run that fast.
And there is also another thing you don't get. Even if Nokia N8 would be faster than my XPERIA X10, it will be for nothing when the N8 will be outdated and old in 1 year because it can't run on the next Symbian, while i can run all of the Android releases for the next 2-3 years and maybe more.
So what would you choose, a phone that runs fast now, but have so poor hardware that it can't even run the next version of Symbian, or a phone that have a future proof CPU and other hardware so it can run the next OS'es for the next 2-4 years very good?.
I think the answer here is pretty easy.
Simply, i don't care on how much gaming performance or how fast the Nokia N8 is now today when it can't even run the next Symbian OS that will come out at the end of this year as the rumours says.
Do you know what happens when it's like that?, Nokia will abandon the phone and just give it bug / error fixes some few times here and there. While we who have a phone like XPERIA X10, will get fully support on our phones and will get the newest OS'es that gets released for the next 2-4 years.
When i'm paying 530 euro for a phone, i will enjoy it longer than 1 year.
And when it's about me, i'm very carefully with my phones, so my phones usually lasts for 5-6 years.
See now why a Nokia N8 is a very very bad choice for phone users like me?.