lyndino, 02 Nov 2018Are they going to rightfully lower the score due to the screen issue? Because, it's just fair ... moreIf they do, then they better massively reduce the scores of iPhone XS & XS Max for their multi-gate issues & Note 9 for it's fragile S-Pen & Side-Buttons.
You see, every phone can be targeted for individual issues if desired, but that doesn't make it any less attractive to non-haters.
Whackcar, 02 Nov 2018I just noticed GSMArena raised it's rating from 4.5/5 to 4.6/5. Hehe Good work! It is a fai... moreAre they going to rightfully lower the score due to the screen issue? Because, it's just fair that way.
I just noticed GSMArena raised it's rating from 4.5/5 to 4.6/5. Hehe
Good work! It is a fairer score for the phone. It's a fully satisfying phone and it rightfully deserves to be praised!
Checked out the phones in Photo Comparison Tool Chart
Mate 20 Pro is fantastic, Pixel 3 is amazing, but XZ3 is still next level
Shui8, 01 Nov 2018You just pick the weakness only from the Mate 20 pro camera (which i agree), but ignore the we... more"tends to overblown the highlights"
I don't know what you're talking about. In sample 2 the XS retained much better highlights of the sign which was pretty significant. Only in the XS shot could you tell that a few round light bulbs lit up the sign while Mate20P's sign was clearly overexposed and the area illuminated by the bulbs were all merged together concealing the shape of the bulbs. In sample 5, as I already mentioned in my last post, the XS retained more highlights whereas the Mate20P retained the least, pay attention to the strongly lit windows of the office building in the background. I think its just that the perceived DR of the Mate20P is sometimes higher because the PP algorithm suppresses highlight edges indirectly through the clarity boost, while the XS actually captured more DR.
"its actually smoothen the pics & create like an oil painting"
Again no idea what you're talking about, there's a difference between less artificial sharpening and more artificial NR. The issue with XS is that it tends to retain slightly more noise than is generally acceptable, not that it reduces noise at the cost of smearing, then cook in excess sharpening, that's Huawei.
"Note 9 now looks the most oversaturate photos"
P20P's oversaturation criticism was based on its rendition of natural subjects, here with all artifical constructs at night it's hard to tell whether saturation is too much or too little, I don't think anybody but you would bring this up as an issue, and personally I don't see any one of the three oversaturated or undersaturated, they all seem within acceptable parameters.
Also I don't believe Note9 really improved from S9, it's definitely at a disadvantage here from the dated setup.
"U supposely calibrate color temperature on screen/monitor, not on the picture results itself"
Fundamentally wrong. All displays should be calibrated to D65 unless for special purposes, and AWB is technically calibrated with a grey card with 18% reflectance across the visible spectrum as any medium displaying the resulting photo is assumed to be calibrated.
"Its a software tweaks that process the pics a bit longer than usual (maybe only for 1.5 seconds) is part of its Auto mod in certain situation."
That makes no sense, there's no need to hold still if the sensor isn't in the middle of an exposure. I don't know what exactly is going on but it's certainly not pure processing.
Nick Tagataka, 01 Nov 2018Uh, that's not really a night mode. PA specifically writes that it "asks you to hold the phone... more"when auto HDR kicks in it takes more than a second to show the image on the gallery preview on the bottom right corner"
From my experience Samsung's HDR algorithm is pretty crappy and usually doesn't engage automatically in low light, in fact I forced HDR once in low light and nothing improved but there was much more smearing so I gave it up. Forcing a high setting in GCam usually gives better results, but seems that doesn't apply to every camera APP.
That said from current information none of us know how long PA's Huawei shots took as they didn't specify. It's just that in their last night shot comparison with the P20P PA did mention that they used night mode so I thought they used the same testing method here. Also the smearing pattern should be somewhat different between P20P and the new model so I didn't rule night mode out based on the amount of smearing.
Nicolas F, 01 Nov 2018Hmm, really? Well, I'll lurk about that, thanks.Another issue is that the Pentile layout of this panel is different from Samsung's, it seems to have much fewer red and blue subpixels at a similar PPI, they use long rectangular R/B subpixels about twice the size of a typical subpixel(also taking up twice the space their own green subpixel) in a diagonal layout, so subpixel rendering may result in unacceptable jaggedness anyway.
This is a microscopic shot of the layout:
Nick Tagataka, 01 Nov 2018A few corrections: 1. DAC means Digital to Analog Converter 2. ISP means Image Signal Processorwas quite close. ^^;
Nick Tagataka, 01 Nov 2018It's true that iPhone goes overboard with detail smoothening in extreme low light, but most of... moreYup the only drawbacks in Huawei's image processing is their combination of Sharpening & Noise Reduction. They should just let the big sensor do the work.
Or maybe because of the other 2 sensor (telephoto & wide lens) are smaller than the main one, so they try to makes the image results looks identical between each other hence the image processing.
And the common answer are its a world of media sharing. Thats the strong reason why many companies likes to oversharpen, oversaturate, overprocessing images for marketing purposes. (I dont agree though).
However, the end results of Mate 20 pro are flagship grade, some parts even better than other competition, the flexibility & versatility of having 3 camera sensor that no other phones have, was astonishing.
Shui8, 01 Nov 2018You just pick the weakness only from the Mate 20 pro camera (which i agree), but ignore the we... moreIt's true that iPhone goes overboard with detail smoothening in extreme low light, but most of the time it tries to keep the details as natural-looking as possible. I think he's talking about how Mate 20 Pro could've performed even better given its best hardware setup. It's got the largest sensor and probably optics which is just as good as the one on iPhone(and far better than Note 9's), and while it lacks OIS the sheer size of the sensor should be more than enough to fill the gap so it should theoretically perform the best... but its software processing is dragging it down quite a bit. I agree with you for other points you made though, colour accuracy and auto white balance of XS indeed leaves a lot to be desired.
Shui8, 01 Nov 2018You just pick the weakness only from the Mate 20 pro camera (which i agree), but ignore the we... morei will just ad on that even PA writer was agreed that night photos are better than XS Max and Note 9...no need for long words as pictures say it all.
S Yu, 01 Nov 2018If that comparison proves anything it's that the Mate20P doesn't have a significant advantage ... moreYou just pick the weakness only from the Mate 20 pro camera (which i agree), but ignore the weakness on XS and Note 9. Both XS & Note 9 tends to overblown the highlights unlike M20 pro, & if u zoom in on any sample from XS out there, its actually smoothen the pics & create like an oil painting. Note 9 now looks the most oversaturate photos as M20 pro Master AI 2.0 sticks to more natural colors now. As for oversharpening, yes sometimes its a bit strong on M20 pro, but at least they improving from last P20 pro. Apple always applied warm color tone pics, and I find that was not suppose to be. U supposely calibrate color temperature on screen/monitor, not on the picture results itself. Let say if my screen/monitor sets to warm color temp already, pics from XS thats already yellow will looks more yellowish.
And last but not least, the 'sharpening image, please hold still' on Huawei phones was not Night Mod. Its a software tweaks that process the pics a bit longer than usual (maybe only for 1.5 seconds) is part of its Auto mod in certain situation. All 3 phones capture using Auto mod, so theres nothing wrong with that as it depends on how each company applied the picture processing things.
Nick Tagataka, 01 Nov 2018I don't think that's the exact reason why Huawei held themselves back from releasing DXO score... moreBig hit did make missing color spectrum sensor on output though, you can see in comparisons how it is bad. I guess they made quite a mistake to remove it.
S Yu, 01 Nov 2018If that comparison proves anything it's that the Mate20P doesn't have a significant advantage ... moreUh, that's not really a night mode. PA specifically writes that it "asks you to hold the phone a bit longer at night so that it sharpens the photos". I get this warning when I take photos on my Mate 10 Pro in auto under low light conditions as well. Note 9 doesn't show you this type of warning, but when auto HDR kicks in it takes more than a second to show the image on the gallery preview on the bottom right corner so it's essentially the same as Mate 20 Pro. Besides, if it was actually a night mode, the details would've turned into a complete mess in these kinds of situations.
But I mostly agree with you that Mate 20 Pro's camera could've benefitted a lot from more refined processing this time around. Now they are using great quality lens, what's stopping them from using more refined image processing algorithms?
MadMel, 31 Oct 2018"mediocre" like this?...
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-Mate-20-Pro-vs-iPhone-XS-Ma... moreWhile photos from all 3 are pretty great, I wouldn't say Mate 20 Pro holds any advantage over iPhone XS here. In most scenes iPhone XS has the finest details, and while Mate 20 Pro consistently creates the most eye-pleasing photo to many people (which is shown by overwhelming number of comments on the original article praising Mate 20 Pro's low light capability), I feel that Huawei could've done even better job in terms of pure image quality. Yes they toned down the sharpening from P20 Pro, but the noise reduction is still unnecessarily strong. P20 Pro's aggressive HDR processing was somewhat understandable because its lens quality wasn't that impressive which means they needed to mask it somehow, but since now they fixed it as well, it makes no sense for them to keep using the same algorithm instead of more natural, refined one.
I saw a blog talking about how Mate 20 Pro can perform better in Pro mode with RAW mode toggled on(this disables most of the post processing applied to JPEG) and I was like holy crap it's far better than any output you can get from full auto, why couldn't they just go this way instead.
Nick Tagataka, 01 Nov 2018I don't think that's the exact reason why Huawei held themselves back from releasing DXO score... moreMay be right, but with its capabilities if it would not help, it would be probably just ignored. Still thinking about it too seriously is too much, they give points also for some modes and capabilities that got nothing to do with quality, while ignoring others. Not to mention points there change way more than if its basic quality .
Nick Tagataka, 01 Nov 2018Lol'ed at "Fake ISO", there's not such a thing dude. You can clearly see the s*** tons amount ... moreMultiframe *is* fake ISO in all practical meanings. If the exposure time is 1/2^9 that needed at ISO100, then it's ISO51200, if it's taken 8 of those images consecutively instead and merged them, then it's effectively ISO6400.
That said I don't know if their claim of ISO51200 is with multiframe NR or not.
MadMel, 31 Oct 2018"mediocre" like this?...
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-Mate-20-Pro-vs-iPhone-XS-Ma... moreIf that comparison proves anything it's that the Mate20P doesn't have a significant advantage in low light, arguably less than the P20P had over Note8 and definitely less than that over the X.
The XS has superior DR in many instances, I don't even need to go into specifics. From the dusk shot it's clear that the Mate20P still applies much more aggressive NR and results in more smearing and less detail retention, like the roof tiles on the London Bridge smeared into goo while they were still slightly visible in the comparison shots.
While there's a shadow advantage in the shot after that, there are also ugly sharpening halos everywhere whereas the competition shows very little to none, and from the notably worse highlight retention in that shot you can tell that the Mate20P exposed to the right anyway so there's a metering factor there.
In the statue shots there's slight amount of movement blur in most of the shots suggesting human error, but otherwise it shows Huawei's tendency of excessive NR and sharpening in stark contrast with the relatively natural rendition of the other two.
And finally, note that PA claims that the phone tells them to hold the camera for a few seconds, indicating activation of the multiframe stacking night mode. The XS also stacks 4 frames by default but it's ZSL i.e. instantaneous capture from shutter release while for the Mate you're asked to hold still and wait, and the Note9 only takes one exposure AFAIK, so it isn't an entirely fair comparison due to the difference in operation requirements.