Where is stereo speaker test, ufs3.0 still isn't corrected in specs, and how's battery endurance much lower than s20 line, when have fhd and lower refresh screen??
ZolaIII, 23 Apr 2020To start with it seams how CS43131 & CS43198 bare to each other like ES9028 and ES9018 bet... moreThanks so much for your valuable insights!!!
Adding my 4 cents regarding my Vivo NEX:
1) Vivo have a system-wide HiFi ON/OFF switch. The review just said on HiFi mode the output through audio jack is line level (0 dB) and on standard mode -7 dB. So correct me if I am wrong the output is 1 Vrms in HiFi mode. And I have seen from other audio reviews from Soomal they never stretch the amp, so that 1 Vrms is most probably the 1st gain step. On second step I have found by NEX is really loud. I am assuming all these in my limited technical abilities. So bear with me.
2) Vivo seems to integrate the Cirrus Logic DAC + 3 Analog Devices SSM6322 op amps in a single system in package (SiP) to reduce area used on the main PCB. I do not think it has any benefits in terms of audio quality but to reduce cost as space is at premium inside phones.
3) The test was done when the phone was running with Android 8.1. After the Android 9 update, the default music player got upgraded and the DSD playback issue had been taken care of. Android 10 is on the way for Vivo NEX. UAC2 issue still remains, but I do not use it.
4) Got the Vivo NEX six months back for $320 brand new in India. Vivo India made sure we get the global version with full Google certification in place and Google Playstore pre-installed. I do buy Android phones without Google certification.
5) I live in India, so shipping to China is bit of a stretch. However, for official reasons if I ever travel China I will definitely love to see the real test performed.
RishiGuru, 23 Apr 2020Can you please go through this link: http://eng.soomal.com/edoc/10100000237.htm
It a techni... moreTo start with it seams how CS43131 & CS43198 bare to each other like ES9028 and ES9018 better say with or without integrated amplifier. I already stated how CS43131 is currently leading design regarding embedded & portable - mobile.
Seams NEX S is almost great design. Review is bad, they didn't provide details of what audio analyzer they used, didn't done or at least provide any output levels (mW) or voltage it provides nor output impedance. Seams software is/whose buggy. Default audio player has problems with DSD playback similar to Neutron HiBy dose not have such problems and I hope it work's. There are problems with bottom end regarding distortion but not big ones nor is that unusual. UAC2 (USB audio 2.0) bad integration is misfortunat one. SINAD is just a tad (96KHz THD graph second harmonic) under TempoTec Sonata HD Pro dongle that cost's 40~42$.
Take a look:
Creative Sound BlasterX is actually has a much more serious amplifier & all do it's portable it won't work with mobiles as OTG can't provide enough power (eventually with some splitter cable it might) today it cost's around 150$. Both are based on CS43131.
NEX S dose look like remarkable for a phone regarding audio! Tell you what if you are interested you can try to contact WolfX-700 (he is in China) at Audiosciencereview.com and talk with him to lent him NEX S to do proper measurements. I am sure there would be a lot people interested in seeing the results.
Will appreciate lab tests, downloadable test files (for the video section), and the usual locations in order to compare between manufacturers. If Coronavirus is the reason this device did not get the full test and standard locations, I will appreciate if you could let us know if you intend to complete the review in a later time. (will appreciate if you could complete the review in this very important aspect)
ZolaIII, 22 Apr 2020Each IC has it's own declared rejection rate which isn't enough in RF EMI crowded world of sma... moreCan you please go through this link: http://eng.soomal.com/edoc/10100000237.htm
It a technical audio review of my Vivo NEX (Vivo NEX S in China) done by renowned Chinese media Soomal. The contents are translated from Chinese to English and you will be able to understand. They say as of today Vivo NEX has the best audio solution on a phone that have come out of China. I would love to hear our thoughts on that.
The best thing about LG Smartphones is that they have dedicated DACs.
LG continuing improve sound and image quality must be the best on the market latest DAC shows very well, improvement is still on the software side
china assembled device plays in another division on the low end
RishiGuru, 22 Apr 2020Six months back I bought a Meizu 16th (Meizu 16 in China). At $240, it was a flagship with SD8... moreEach IC has it's own declared rejection rate which isn't enough in RF EMI crowded world of smartphones. Regarding shielding materials Steel is great one among cheap one's for lo frequencies but highly unpractical (heavy, oxidation prone), then comes silver (expensive & also oxidates. Graphite all do not so great is still overlay the best on complete frequency spectrum, it's cheap, very light and doesn't oxidate. Don't believe everything you hear in yellow press. I don't know about Meizu 16. I know about G7 and S8 regarding regarding same WCD9341 implementation G7 has 14 dB higher SINAD, with switching to ESS this goes up 10 more dB and mostly thanks to better shielding of the phone it self. So LG still has the best implementation known to me. Regarding WCD9341 integrated Amp almost all manufacturers opt for lo gain but with root you can switch it up. It's not per se bad, it's nice design. The Golden Ear codec revision (the latest one) is actually a downgrade (a slight one), you can't hear digital filters if implementation isn't really a bad one. Real reson why WCD stuck less power is lithography proces it's maid upon (all do there whosent been much improvements regarding MOSFETS lately ESS which is tiny compared to QC is behind). Actually DAC use much more power than small lo voltage Amp's. CS43131 is a new champion for now when it comes to small, cheap, efficient & hi integrated DAC - Amp IC's. Among USB portable DAC's Meizu HiFi Pro has smallest power consumption (non pro is plagued with problems) but EMI rejection is bad, Sonata HD Pro is much better regarding that. Both are CS43131 based.
You really are walking encyclopedia of rare audio embedded phone solutions and you had most of them. I on the other hand like to play on the safe card and being sure I can fix possible shortcomings buying dedicated gear peace by peace. Worse market short coming regarding portable USB DAC's is lack of quality affordable USB C to Micro cables along with fact no platform ever (including all OS-es) adopted USB audio 3.0 standard.
ZolaIII, 21 Apr 2020Tiristor based impedance to voltage regulation is better approach if you must have one, CS431... moreSix months back I bought a Meizu 16th (Meizu 16 in China). At $240, it was a flagship with SD845 & 8GB RAM. Meizu India provided a fully Google certified device with Google playstore pre-installed. In short, pretty awesome performance & built quality for its price.
Meizu has a rich history of making portable music players before they ventured into smartphones and still today makes some very good quality headphones & earphones. As such the company understands sound quality and many of their previous flagships smartphones came with dedicated DAC solutions. However for 16th, sadly their last flagship with a 3.5mm audio jack there was no press material indicated anything extraordinary in the audio department.
I took for granted it was using some low quality audio codec from Qualcomm. However more I listened music through my Meizu 16th, more I fell in love with this device. One day just for fun I sat down a did some critical listening with some expensive earphones, and I immediately noticed the sound quality is above ordinary through the 3.5 mm headphone jack. I started reasoning my mind how is it possible with Qualcomm codecs and Meizu must have done something special.
After going through some Chinese websites performing detailed tear-downs, I found Meizu 16th is using the highest quality flagship audio codec available from Qualcomm. It is Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341, a dedicated audio chip. With an advertised dynamic range of 130dB & distortion of -109dB during audio playback the WCD9341 is quite close to ESS Sabre ES9218P (LG's Quad DAC) & Cirrus Logic CS43199 (Vivo NEX S). Digging deeper I found Qualcomm partnered and further tuned their flagship WCD9341 under the guidance given by a group of audiophiles known as "Golden Ears". Qualcomm was then able to create custom digital filters which creates the final sound signature which are generally adored by most audiophiles.
However in real life even if these objective measurements are very close to ESS & Cirrus Logic, there still remains a gap that Qualcomm have to fill to the very best in the audio industry. In Meizu 16th tear-downs by Chinese media, I found the WCD9341 audio chip sits under its own tiny metal cover plate with graphite & copper shielding over it. So the chip is completely isolated from the rest of the PCB and its ICs. This complete isolation definitely eliminates a lot of induced noise on the analog stage of WCD9341. Quite impressed as Meizu shelled more money in the production line to make sure the sound quality remains intact through the 3.5 mm audio jack.
The other fact I noticed on 16th is the power available through audio jack is much higher than similar WCD9341 implementations like in OnePlus 6 (sadly the last OnePlus with audio jack). The OnePlus frankly sounds anemic in comparison to 16th, no drive. Meizu seems to have twice as much power and can drive any headphone much better.
Going through the spec sheet I found WCD9341 is designed to perform with power anywhere between 6mW to 34mW, maybe Meizu is providing all the power it needs by dedicated power rails. In short I am truly impressed by Meizu's dedication for sound quality as I see & hear the difference of the same audio chip with drastically different performance levels between Meizu & OnePlus. It is Meizu's good implementation that make the WCD9341 shine. Correct me if I am wrong LG's QuadDAC consumes 2.5 times more power at 80mW but have way more drive capability.
Subjectively, Meizu 16th sound signature is like my LG V30+, which can be best described with words like pristine, neutral, clinical & accurate. However to my tastes WCD9341 easily beats anything from AKM stables, be it AKM AK4376 or AK4376A in sound quality. Drive capability is more or less same.
One of the other reasons I bought Meizu 16th was dual stereo speakers. Each speaker is powered by a dedicated Cirrus Logic CS35L41 amplifier, so sound is loud & crisp leaning more on the musical side rather than being out and out loud.
In the end I am quite impressed with the sound quality and headphone drive capability of Meizu 16th through 3.5 mm audio jack considering that it still uses an audio codec from an unknown brand like Qualcomm in the audio world, though I admit the audio codec is of high quality. Qualcomm deserves credit & also Meizu deserves a pat on their back for bringing to us perhaps the best implementation of Qualcomm Aqstic WCD9341 in a smartphone till date.
Aaron, 22 Apr 2020dac have only lgAs stated in this discusion ... no, there are few other that use dedicated DACs to drive their outputs - LG is just the most "famous" one :D
There were many phones with Wolfson DACs, it's really a shame they all died out.
CAw, 21 Apr 2020So which phones have "Dedicated" DAC? I want to know more, please!dac have only lg
Shitter, 21 Apr 2020How did you write this? With your pen?Bro bro bro bro!!!! Woaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!!😂🤣
Anonymous, 19 Apr 2020I do not feel that there are advantages over v50 besides main cam and battery endurance. Today I played with V50 with fresh android 10. It is just brilliant. Yes battery and cam is main pros to V60 over v50.
I just recieved my LG V50 5G with android 10 and I gotta tell you! There is NOTHING better than LG Android 10 UI. You gotta see it it is amazing. And I have mate20pro with android 10, and p30pro with 10, and LG v40 with android 9. But v50 with android 10 is something else!
Gotta love LG
V60 is the same or better in software wise
CAw, 21 Apr 2020You should try E1DA 9038S, for 80$, this one beats DragonFly Cobalt and it's very light, just ... moreThere are two problem's with E1DA 9038S; it's balanced only (no adapter's or anything allowed) and it's prone in picking up EMI. I know the creator, successor with lot of thing's resolved better (digital filters, companion app, multi layer PCB, better interface USB IC...) is coming really soon. He is a pain in the ass and I hope successor will have & normal unbalanced out but I don't hold my breath on that.