RishiGuru, 18 Dec 2020It is imperative that we stop this comparison between car and smartphones immediately.
All... moreI hope realize that 24hr Le Mans is one race which puts the car on test for that single race. That means nothing on reliability of a car over time. That Literally means nothing. If you really think that BMW-McLaren F1 can be used as a daily driver reliably then you are dreaming. I think you don't get the point of what reliability over time is. And what usage of a car or a smartphone over time is. Do one thing. Go to eBay.com Motors and check on Rolls-Royce listed from past 2 Decades. Then check on McLarens being sold. You will surprised to see the result. Considering the Extremely Low volume that McLaren sells in comparison to Rolls-Royce why so many McLarens end up being sold. That too 80%+ being New less than 5Yr Models. Whereas of all the Rolls-Royce being sold it is 40% or less that are 2015 or Newer Models. You can go to any other US or even UK car used car Listing sites and you will get similar results. That was my point. That was what I was trying to explain in my past few posts.
Similarly People using iPhone or XPERIA end up using the device for over very long period of time. Where as people using Xiaomi, OnePlus etc mostly end up switching there devices much sooner because of the issues that arise from longer usage.
Rishi and Vineet are now going head to head, vinnet tries to deflect rishi's punch and hits! rishi now kicks vineet nearly off the stage but vineet barely hangs on!!!
AnonD-973296, 17 Dec 2020Hello welcome back to radio sony where today we listen to two people in the comments debate on... morehaha ikr... if people can buy both cars and be happy about it... but no, people love arguments that can go infinitely... i thought this is car arena... or bashing arena hahahahhaha
Vineet Reddy, 18 Dec 2020Brother you gave me 5 solid points. Thanks for taking your time to reply and put out Long deta... moreIt is imperative that we stop this comparison between car and smartphones immediately.
All your counter data points are very vague in nature and you are constantly moving from one point to another. First you compared car and smartphone designs. Then it was their performance & reliability. Now it's the practicality of cars and how they compare with smartphones. It seems you do not have any basic understanding of how a car works.
The world's biggest test of a vehicle reliability is performed each year on the famous 24 hours LeMans race circuit. It is the proving ground of vehicle reliability. All competing vehicles need to run 24 hours non stop at maximum performance average speed possible.
The legendary McLaren F1 designed by mercurial Gordon Murray won it in 1995, covering 298 laps in total. That is 4056 km non stop through day & night on an average speed of 169 km/h. Rain was mud was also included.
Can you objectively present here any hard data point where you can prove a Rolls Royce have run more kilometres in any type of race and covered more distance than this McLaren in a single stint? I imply in a race as this is where you push a car near its peak performance and still expect good reliability. The type you claim Rolls Royce to be. I am not even comparing the average speeds as you you will be left with 4 wheels of the Rolls if you try to attend that.
RishiGuru, 17 Dec 2020"What you saying about Rolls-Royce vs McLaren is exactly what I have been saying. See McL... moreBrother you gave me 5 solid points. Thanks for taking your time to reply and put out Long detailed explanation with pointers. I really appreciate that dedication. But now coming to the 5 points you explained in Detail did nothing to prove that McLaren is more Reliable and Long lasting than Rolls-Royce. Now coming to real Life and Being Practical. Take any McLaren that is out there in real world. The cars which are used regularly on daily basis and put through tiring usage the cars are retired or sold off by its owner in just few years of its purchase. The McLarens which are with the owner for very long time are not used much and are purchased as collectors item. Now the Rolls-Royce. The Fact that Rolls-Royce majority of them are used for decade at minimum by owner to be chauffeured around on daily basis. To be honest I selected McLaren because it is the least reliable of the Super Car territory. Lamborghini being most reliable followed by Porsche. But that is a different discussion. There are people around the world who need a Reliable Low Maintenance Least down time car and that kind of crowd heads towards Rolls-Royce. Then there are people who want the car to enjoy the ride and push it crazy and be fast and they don't care about Reliability and end up swapping it to next better thing in just short period of time. That kind of crowd looks towards McLaren.
Similarly the iPhone and XPERIA crowd needs their devices to be exceptional and last Long over time and be reliable. Chinese phone crowd are fine with the top of the Line Performance they get and really don't care their phones to be reliable over time as they expect to replace them in a year or two to the newer version out.
Hello welcome back to radio sony where today we listen to two people in the comments debate on whether we can cross compare chinese phones with luxury car companies.
TheGoldenMellifluous, 16 Dec 2020Well, first things, thanks for the reply and elaboration. Sure, opinion to themselves and I ac... moreThanks for the great info. I admire you enthusiasm for Sony smartphones and how much you know about them. But don't be fooled with such public statements by a company representative. Remember a statement like this can often be argued both ways.
Vineet Reddy, 17 Dec 2020You are wrong if you think cars and smartphones are too different to be used for cross compari... more"What you saying about Rolls-Royce vs McLaren is exactly what I have been saying. See McLaren is meant for Burst of Speed but have to remember it is "Burst of Speed" you cannot expect the McLaren to Run on its Top speed consistently or be reliable over time. But Rolls-Royce on other-hand is made to be reliable and to have its Peak-Performance up all the time. McLaren P1 can do 350kph but for short periods of time and then it has fall back to 250kph to be on working on acceptable levels. If it is pushed to 350kph for longer times it will break down. Now Rolls-Royce on the other-hand being limited to 250kph can run on its top speed all day long. Rolls-Royce is designed to be Reliable while delivering its Peak-Performance. McLaren cannot do that.
Similar to this Chinese phones are pushed to their limit which is not even consistent while not caring much of being reliable under longer period of stress or usage. But SONY on the other hand is made so that it delivers reliable and consistent performance and is truly reliable and meant to deliver the longevity we expect from it."
First, reliability and peak performance of a vehicle never goes hand in hand. It is limited by laws of physics. If you want reliability you have to give up peak performance and vice versa. So your statement of Rolls Royce is designed to be reliable while delivering peak performance is plain wrong.
Overall performance of a car can be broadly broken down to:
1) Aerodynamic Performance: Rolls may go at 250 kph max speed until the fuel tank runs dry, but it will do so only in a straight line. Even if the Rolls tries to take a turn at 100 kph it will fly off the road due to negligible aerodynamic down-force available. The McLaren on the other hand with fat tires and the rear spoiler at full tilt will bite the tarmac with both higher mechanical grip & down-force available. It will make a safe exit through the turn. McLaren is not only safer but also makes the turn. McLaren wins.
2) Vehicle Dynamics: There is no contest in vehicle dynamics, Mclaren wins through and through. With minimum ground clearance, extremely low center of gravity and mid engine based design allowing it to be close to 50:50 weight distribution. In hand feel of the steering wheel, agility will be on another plain when compared to the extremely heavy and under-steering Rolls Royce. McLaren is also the safer car as it will be more nimble due to superior vehicle dynamics & low weight. McLaren wins.
3) Acceleration: In terms of acceleration from a standing start the McLaren will leave Rolls Royce to dust. McLaren wins through and through.
4) Deceleration: With carbon ceramic brakes, twice the size that of Rolls Royce, Mclaren will not only stop faster but more importantly be much safer option. Even in the case of late reaction from a driver, the Mclaren will stop a lot faster and avoid an accident. Mclaren is safer and wins.
5) Top speed: Rolls may go at 250 kph max speed until that fuel tank runs dry, but the McLaren can reduce its speed from 350 to 250 kph and churn all day long. And at equal speed of 250 kph the McLaren is the safer car as it has increase it speed by 100 kph if required, it can declarative much faster, it is more aerodynamically efficient leading to low fuel consumption, more stable an predictable car at high speeds and above all a much more safer vehicle due to superior vehicle dynamics and use of carbon-fibre chassis. Mclaren wins.
A sports car like McLaren P1 as we found out is better on all above 5 points over a Rolls Royce. This is because McLaren is a much more technologically advanced car and I am not even considering its hybrid power-train which is more eco friendly. So McLaren should be the more performance oriented, safer and reliable car of the two when you consider both are running at same performance parameter. And the added peak performance advantage of McLaren is an added advantage. This the reason why we go racing with McLaren and not with a elephantine Rolls Royce.
So coming back to your comparison of McLaren representing a Chinese phone and Rolls Royce that of Sony .... we now know which is better and always wins. Or does it?
So I will repeat it once more... car and smartphone are different commodities and drawing a performance & reliability comparisons between them should never be made. Then others will bring up the performance & reliability comparisons between Boeing 407, Xperia 1 II & Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21.
RishiGuru, 16 Dec 2020"I really don't know what it will take you to understand that the simple rectangular... moreYou are wrong if you think cars and smartphones are too different to be used for cross comparison. See I am quoting this from your comment "You are talking about two companies catering to two different segments of people with different mindset and usecases" That is what I was trying to explain yo in last Few Comments. You did understand it but then you are not ready to accept it. Read my previous comments that is the exact thing I explain again and again and again.
What you saying about Rolls-Royce vs McLaren is exactly what I have been saying. See McLaren is meant for Burst of Speed but have to remember it is "Burst of Speed" you cannot expect the McLaren to Run on its Top speed consistently or be reliable over time. But Rolls-Royce on other-hand is made to be reliable and to have its Peak-Performance up all the time. McLaren P1 can do 350kph but for short periods of time and then it has fall back to 250kph to be on working on acceptable levels. If it is pushed to 350kph for longer times it will break down. Now Rolls-Royce on the other-hand being limited to 250kph can run on its top speed all day long. Rolls-Royce is designed to be Reliable while delivering its Peak-Performance. McLaren cannot do that.
Similar to this Chinese phones are pushed to their limit which is not even consistent while not caring much of being reliable under longer period of stress or usage. But SONY on the other hand is made so that it delivers reliable and consistent performance and is truly reliable and meant to deliver the longevity we expect from it.
That is what I said and that is why I compared to the specific cars that I selected. You literally repeated my point and then not accept it.
TheGoldenMellifluous, 16 Dec 2020Well, first things, thanks for the reply and elaboration. Sure, opinion to themselves and I ac... moreAdditional:
And I bet 1 III will even more segmented than ever if they eventually bring goods from their other professional divisions that casual users will be having a hard time elaborating. The concept, vision, targeting of Sony in new-gen Xperia was already spot on, and I don't think they will move the compass or barely moved, unlike what they did in 2016 or earlier. TechAltar tweeted this. The only I wholeheartedly agree with is about their marketing with you though. The last time they did it was Xperia Z5 times, 5 years ago. Sure, Taiwan and Japan got their marketing team back on league, but yeah, that's the only location they were aggressively doing it (Taiwan, Sweden, HK, and a fraction of Europe is Sony Xperia strongest market).
And Sony has stopped going to Samsung or Apple level anymore in terms of sales. Sure, it still maintains its "high-profit profit margin per unit" and 1 II was selling better, sometimes sold out, than the original 1, and with their Xperia shipment stabilized, I think Kenichiro did something this time, where they pursuing a profit, last seen in Q1 2017. But they never desire to be #1 in any condition, as their smartphones weren't its front-runner. PS, Home Entertainment, and Financial were. And for the Price-to-performance ratio, I never care honestly lately. I always buy second-handed Xperia since Z5, XZ 2016, and now XZ Premium. So 1 II I will purchase later be the same. Yeah, 1000+ USD phones are way above the sky, I know. But, even the "Chinese" OEM that know for P/P ratio, did it. Mi 10 Pro in Europe was one of them. A contrast from the Mi 9 series.
RishiGuru, 16 Dec 2020Thanks for the lowdown on Sony's design philosophy. Marketing names like "OmniBalanc... moreWell, first things, thanks for the reply and elaboration. Sure, opinion to themselves and I acknowledged, but remember, Sony fans eagerly for Sony to keep their smartphones' main design consistent all the time (with Xperia Z philosophical design as the base of all of them) as their base and Sony best USP, and not making the same mistake as XZ2/3. From dedicated camera button, tool-less SIM slot and still have MicroSDXC, front-facing stereo speakers, no-notch (except L4) side fingerprint sensor, headphone jack, notification LED, and clean Android UI-UX. Sure, Nokia 6.1 was great from design, I admitted it. But the fact HMD messed lately... And just saying, Xperia 1 II has a chamfered flat-side, though flat back (same as Xperia Z5 design, a nice touch of an industrial design). The curved edge ones are 5 II & 10 II. Sony had decided to stick with "iterative design" as well as "industrial design" for Xperia. The same idea Apple has been chasing in iPhones
Secondly, well, Sony had just moved to very niche markets smartphone since Xperia 1 was launched, though they still take cues of trends, but not as "dramatic or radical" as they did in 2018. I mean, Michael Fisher (Mr.Mobile), Engadget, WIRED UK, and most reviewers agreed and said it out loud in its review. Even if it's mainstream at the first glance, which's there's a possibility, I'm not sure if those users will able to master Xperia fully compared, let say, mastered iPhone or Galaxy. Bringing their professional Alpha, CineAlta, Bravia, and its elements (UI, systems, processing) to Photo-Cinema Pro app that needs more time to master proof that. And let's not talk about Xperia Pro 5G, which is way even more niche and will never reach the mainstream market despite any counterarguments. Sure, they ain't Pagani, Patek, or Caviar. But even in the mainstream section, there's always a niche in destined percentages. Instance? Porsche 911 and Dodge Challenger. The mainstream will choose the popular spec'd one, while purists or fans will go for niche choices like a manual transmission or performance-tuned version.
They said the new target of Xperia in the interview with Trusted Reviews:
“Sony as a brand is not going to appeal to everybody. We’re not a Samsung, we’re not a Huawei. But what we will appeal to is people who want quality products where they are able to take amazing pictures or a video or do something different”
And I will continue to purchase a Sony phone in the future, though I did ever consider purchasing P30 Pro (as a secondary phone). All OEMs like Xiaomi, Huawei, Samsung great, but Sony suited me the best.
It will be better this web site include cameras like dslr and mirroless about their information
Vineet Reddy, 16 Dec 2020I really don't know what it will take you to understand that the simple rectangular block... more"I really don't know what it will take you to understand that the simple rectangular block look which took practically 0 imagination to create is what makes the phone look so Elegant and Rich. That was the entire point."
The Xperia 1 II looks Elegant and Rich in your eyes. It may not be so to others. You are talking on a subjective level which varies from person to person. You are appreciating a design which suits your taste, maybe not others. In my previous post I presented my take on this design. That was the entire point.
"Okay you tell me why don't Rolls-Royce have curvy body like McLaren. Because Rolls-Royce is designed to please the Elegant audience. Well if you enter a Car discussion Forum and complaint that Rolls-Royce is not looking as McLaren you will literally be burned on that forum."
You are talking about two companies catering to two different segments of people with different mindset and usecases. McLaren in a sports car manufacturer which design well... sports cars. By necessity sports cars needs to be aerodynamically efficient to attain high speed and stability on high speeds. That's why the legendary McLaren F1 and McLaren P1 have very low drag coefficient which results in very less frontal area. Even Gordon Murray's latest adventure the GMA T50 have fan assisted aerodynamics in it. So for sports car manufacturer exterior design is driven by performance aspects and in general the rear mounted engine design also aids in attending a small frontal area for minimum drag.
For Rolls Royce, its is neither the speed or performance that matters but how the journey is made. Plush interior, leather everywhere, veneer woods etc. For Rolls Royce the presence is everything. You have to understand the philosophy why a rich guy buys a Rolls Royce. Not to go to track and burn some rubber. But to show I am special & rich guy and I own a Rolls, so my car implicitly tells others who I am even though I do not tell it myself. Hence Rolls have huge frontal area, width and height to show its presence everywhere. It gives a damn to performance and aerodynamics.
Car and smartphone are different commodities and drawing design comparisons between them should not be made. Then others will bring up the design comparisons between Boeing 407, Xperia 1 II & Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21.
RishiGuru, 16 Dec 2020Thanks for the lowdown on Sony's design philosophy. Marketing names like "OmniBalanc... moreI really don't know what it will take you to understand that the simple rectangular block look which took practically 0 imagination to create is what makes the phone look so Elegant and Rich. That was the entire point. Okay you tell me why don't Rolls-Royce have curvy body like McLaren. Because Rolls-Royce is designed to please the Elegant audience. Well if you enter a Car discussion Forum and complaint that Rolls-Royce is not looking as McLaren you will literally be burned on that forum.
TheGoldenMellifluous, 16 Dec 2020"What I hate about Xperia phones is their design or rather lack of it. They represent a r... moreThanks for the lowdown on Sony's design philosophy. Marketing names like "OmniBalance" or "ZeroBalance" or "NoBalance" have zero impact on my outcome. In my eyes Xperia 1 II design in bland at best. It takes a ruler and pencil to draw some straight lines on drawing board to come up with this rectangular slab. There seems no thought or imagination poured into the design. I have question marks over Sony mobile's financial health which can have a direct impact on their design labs creativity.
However i admit design is subjective and vary from person to person. So there are people like you who likes the Xperia 1 II shape and I have no complaints.
In my eyes a $100 Nokia 6.1 (2018) is better designed than this phone. It too have a slab like shape but introduces chamfered edges with two tone anodization process while having a very gentle curve at the back. The back camera module on 6.1 is ascetically pleasing, but maybe not so functional as the fingerprint scanner sits lower down in the back than it should be. But atleast Nokia tried. As far as I can remember they even received a design award for this phone. But again I admit design is subjective and others may like Xperia's shape.
Lastly your comment on Sony targeted this phone for loyal fans and not for mainstream users. Well smartphone business does not run that way. Sony is here to run a business and earn profit. They are no Cavier with 22 cart gold bodied, half a kilo phones targeted to millionaires. A sane management as big as Sony will always target the mainstream as this is where money is.
But their product Xperia 1 II or their entire product portfolio does not still live upto the best standards of the industry or price/ performance ratio is bad. Having no marketing budget due to poor financial results also does not help Sony's mobile division. Which is why they are nowhere near Samsung or Apple. In business terms this is hard truth.
RishiGuru, 14 Dec 2020The day has not yet arrived but bound to come soon. Till then I admit Apple and Samsung still ... more"What I hate about Xperia phones is their design or rather lack of it. They represent a rectangular slab, that's it."
Errr dude, just saying... The "rectangular slab" of Xperia that you hate, is the reason why Sony has its own USP and stands-out compared to others, loved by fans very much since 2013 when Xperia Z was launched. And since the break from Ericsson, their phone design was consistent, albeit small changes that won't remove the main design of the phone (as Japanese company tends to stick with its traditions strongly). Both OmniBalance and Loop Design were fan favorites. But the haters just getting too brave and demanded Sony to redesign their phone when the XZ1 series was unveiled in 2017. Sony agreed and embraced. However, the wrong interpretations made everything too messy.
So, in 2018, Sony revamped their entire lineup from blocky form factor to very curvy design and smooth edges with Ambient Flow design. While the XA and L series were immune (mixed design of both Ambient and Loop), its flagship XZ series wasn't. Sony fans weren't pleased with the design. As too many "sacrilegious" in Ambient Flow design, from moving the fingerprint sensor to the back, removal of headphone jack added insult to the injury, and others. The haters aren't different at all and they called it "HTC copy" and "not the bezel-less design they expected". Of course, because of this, some fans have refrained to buy the XZ2 series and XZ3. Additionally pulling out from more markets that year like Mid-Eastern, LATAM market, Sony Xperia shipment dropped to the lowest point at 2 million or less, when the design you hated (OmniBalance & Loop Design) was higher.
Seeing these damages too deep, in line with Sony's new CEO being appointed, Sony had to scrap the smooth-edges, curvy Ambient Flow design and revived the more boxy, sharp-edges, and blocky OmniBalance design from Z Series with a bezel-less twist, seen on 2019 & 2020 Xperias, just to win fans hearts again, like this 1 II. While the shipment still low, at least Sony was right to target this phone for loyal fans and specific users, so this design wins their hearts again, and Sony won't have to worry about pleasing mainstream users anymore. They can have iPhones or Samsung in that regard. Sure, as I said, changes are imminent here, but as Sony knows their fans don't another 2018 fiasco, the philosophy design of blocky, sharp-edges, and boxy OmniBalance stays here.
RishiGuru, 15 Dec 2020"Because we don't care."
See, this mentality is what gets me off. The moot p... moreMan. Read what I said twice in my Two comments regarding how good the Chinese Flagships are. One Plus to be honest is my top Android recommendation after Premium Flagships like XPERIA 1 II, Note 20 Ultra and Pixel 5. But when it comes to quality, smooth running reliability and Longevity they are not as good as XPERIA and even Pixel. I have recommended OnePlus over SAMSUNG Flagships for its reliability. OnePlus even though being Chinese phone is above the rest of the crap.
Please read my previous two long comments through the part where I commented on Chinese Flagships. Read and understand what I said. You have repeatedly said what I commented on twice(which is good) and after that you say you don't agree what I am saying.
RishiGuru, 15 Dec 2020"Because we don't care."
See, this mentality is what gets me off. The moot p... morehaha you should start going to your favorite brands article...
the users should be the one "criticizing" the things they use...
just cant stop laughing at that "rectangular slab" thing...
even lg wing is a rectangular slab... i mean, two rectangular slabs... so your phone is circular "slab"?
Vineet Reddy, 14 Dec 2020First of all don't know what sites you have gone through. Because all the Reputed Review ... more"Because we don't care."
See, this mentality is what gets me off. The moot problem. Many times I see tons of biased comments from so called SONY XPERIA users who have never tried any new flagships from China. And if I or anyone who have tried multiple brands be in Korean, Japanese, European or Chinese say the truth is different from what is perceived here, we are greeted with the above comment.
I never said latest Chinese flagships are better than SONY XPERIA's, I just tried to convey the gap have diminished to a level that it is non existent in some case. Take the latest OnePlus and Sony Xperia as an example.
Everybody has the right to say. See I comment on posts based on my own experiences irrespective of brand or model. I do not colonize myself as SONY XPERIA users as we comment here and don't care whats going to the rest of the smartphone industry.